Force size limitations?

[Bil Hardenberger]

What are the force size limitations for CM? In other words how big a battle can be fought realisticlly with the game?

Just curious as I haven't seen this mentioned before(I probably missed it).

[This message has been edited by Bil Hardenberger (edited 09-22-99).]

[Moon]

It's been mentioned several times and you can find some details about it in the CM FAQ section (click on the battlefront.com link on the lower end of the message board to get to the main page), but I guess it's easy to miss info - tons of stuff on this website http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/smile.gif

Anyways, max force size would probably be one reinforced battalion per side. Max size of map for scenarios is roughly 3 squarekilometers, I think.

[Big Time Software]

Yup, that is about right. No hard limits, but this is the max you are going to want to play with. Personally, I like battles that are just about battalion size for each. Smaller ones are REALLY cool too.

Steve

[Bil Hardenberger]

Steve,
So I take it from your response that "monster" battles are possible? http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/smile.gif

Is the limit based on CPU limitations or the amount of clicking around? CM doesn't strike me as a CPU killer so it must be the latter.

[Big Time Software]

Sure, in theory you could make a Regimental sized battle. But just try it and you will see why it won't work without us putting in hardcoded unit max numbers. You would have probably close to 1000 unique units for each side. Nobody is going to want to play such a game, even if they do have a VERY fast system (like the not yet released Merced or a faster G4). It isn't just the FPS and turn crunching that makes this a yawner, but also the huge number of units that have to be issued orders. Ugh, it hurts to even think about it http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/smile.gif

Steve

[sage]

Is it possible to issue orders by the platoon? I.e. give the same set of orders to four similar units in one action?

This might help with very large games. I tend to like small fast games, myself, but every once in awhile the urge to play something monsterous comes over me...

[Stephen Smith]

A regimental-sized battle would take about 1000 unique units per side?
As rough numbers, I am guessing:
Company: 1 CO
3 PL
9 squads
throw in a few weapons squads, say 5
18 rough total
Battalion: 1 Bn CO
4 line companies (4 x 18)
1 weapons company (18)
1 HQ co (18)
1 scout platoon (4)
118 rough total

Bde/Regt: 1 Bde CO
3 line Bn (3 x 118)
artillery is off-board (0)
1 scout company (18)
373 rough total number of units/icons.

I'm using rough numbers, based on my knowledge of modern bn/bde organization, but I would think they are at least roughly the same. What units am I forgetting, that would triple the number of individual icons in a regimental-sized game?

Steve

[fatherof4]

Steve, I'm no expert but I know one thing you left out of your assumed regiment: headquarter sections for all of those platoons and companies.

[Fionn]

1 company =

3 infantry platoons + some support units.

1 infantry platoon =
HQ unit ( 1 figure)
3 squads (9 figures total)

Thus each company = 30 figures (for platoons + at least 5 more for support units)

A battalion thus equals 105 figures PLUS battalion-level support.

Battalion level support = at least another 30 figures for all the heavy weapons and command units.

So a battalion = roughly 150 figures ( assuming they have a few vehicles and FOs to help out).

Multiply by 3 = 450 units PLUS regiment-level support assest.. Say.. 50 units.

Thus 1 regiment CAN dispose 500 figures.

Multiply by 2 to represent the other side and you end up with 1,000 figures onscreen at the same time.

Its amazing how quickly it builds up isn't it?



------------------
___________
Fionn Kelly
Manager of Historical Research,
The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers

[Stephen Smith]

I see-
1000 figures means 1000 human icons-I assumed that meant 1000 individual maneuver units (squads, hq sections, heavy weapons sections, etc).

Steve

[Big Time Software]

Steve,

Actually, I did mean 1000 units. It was a rough guess, and it seems one that was too high. However, something that you forgot about is how many freakin team units there would be for a Regiment http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/smile.gif Each company has at least a dozen or more of their own (bazookas, MGs, mortars, etc.) Battalions have their own support units as well. And when you are talking Regimental there are entire formations. For example, the AT Company for a Volksgrenadier Regiment would have almost 80 units in it. Oh, and for the side that is on the attack, you have to add in transport (provided it should have it). I don't even want to think about that, because tossing in about 100 vehicles would kill the game dead http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/smile.gif

Even if you didn't go with all the support units assigned to the formations, a "trim" 800 units for both sides is unplayable (both from a hardware and from a player standpoint).

Steve

[This message has been edited by Big Time Software (edited 09-23-99).]

[Doug Beman]

I can see it now: two wargamers get together every Saturday to play CM via two LAN'd computers...

(Gamer1) "Let's see, last week I moved all the 81 mm mortars for the two companies north of the treeline, and located FOs for the hill overlooking the town. Then I fine-tuned the bazooka teams hiding in the farmhouses. I also repositioned the attached regimental-level AT guns. This week I'll give my rifle platoons their orders and fine-tune the positions of all my tanks north of the hillock and west of the road."

(Gamer2) (Dies)

DjB

[This message has been edited by Doug Beman (edited 09-23-99).]

[Hunter]

Actually about the maximum map size, I think I remember reading it was 3 kilometres square, not 3 square kilometres.

Maybe people read it that way anyway?

Bruce