MajorH
10-16-1999, 01:24 PM
No promises http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/smile.gif, but lets see if we can work up some codeable logic/rules for a suppression mode for direct fire.
I will be providing some info on the inner workings of TacOps. I would rather not get into a deeper discussion of those inner workings under this thread title unless a tidbit specifically applies to the Area Fire issue. Otherwise this topic will degenerate into numerous tangents http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/smile.gif. If something in this discussion triggers an off topic question that you absolutely have to ask http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/smile.gif, then please do it with a new message that uses a different topic title.
Issue...
At present TacOps units - except for arty and mortars - can not shoot at an area that does not show spotted and active enemy units. Currently most units have to actually see an active target unit and have a reasonable chance of hitting and hurting it or else they won't fire at all. A number of users would like to be able to order every type of unit to fire at points or small areas of ground, even if no enemy unit is currently visible there and even if there is little or no chance of harming what is there - suppressive fire, recon by fire, that sort of thing. If implemented, this kind of fire would be no where near as effective as shooting at a visible active unit but it might be useful once in a while and it would be (or at least would seem to be) somewhat more realistic in some situations.
Background ...
There are two main types of data base records in TacOps that all else must build on - unit records and weapon records. Unit records define (among many other things) the number of people and the number and types of weapons that are in a given unit. A unit record defines the smallest possible unit marker in TacOps - usually an infantry team, an infantry squad, or one vehicle. Platoon and company markers are created simply by multiplying the base unit record. A weapon record defines the capabilities of one weapon - for example one M60 machine gun. In the case of most infantry small arms, a weapon's capabilities are based on a standard of 15 seconds of plausible activity/firing. In other words, the effect of firing a rifle or an M60 machine gun is based on the expectation that the weapon will fire one or more bursts over a fifteen second period. Whatever is done with Area Fire, it must start with probability table entries to unit and or weapon records.
Ideas...
The items below are not final decisions on my part. They are provided just as initial thoughts to get the discussion going.
? What to call the feature? We need a short, snappy name that intuitively communicates what the feature does. Short is very important because most likely the feature will be implemented with a button in the Unit Orders Window and nobody likes to see huge buttons. Area Fire? Direct Area Fire? Area Direct Fire? Suppress? Suppression Fire?
The feature should be activated by a new button in the unit orders window. Perhaps similar in operation to the "Set DFTRP" button?
Area fire will be very unlikely to kill hard targets such as armored vehicles? It will be reasonably likely to suppress and occasionally cause casualties to soft targets?
? How much ground should a basic level unit or weapon be allowed to try to suppress? How should the base suppression values be increased as base level units are assembled into platoon and company sized markers. Should this be handled with entries to the unit records, the weapons records, entries to both, and or with additional universal modifiers?
? Probability tables will likely be required to adjudicate the effects of the area fire of various classes of units and or weapons vs various classes of targets. One simple way to handle this would be to assign each weapon type an area fire probability table/values that determine how much ground the weapon can attempt to suppress and whether or not 'suppression' or 'a normal hit' is achieved on an unseen enemy unit that happens to be in the beaten zone of the area fire. Remembering that casualty producing 'hits' in area fire situations are accidents, there should be a very low probability of getting anything other than transient suppression.
? One approach would be to execute an Area Fire Hit die roll (a value between 1 and 100) against each enemy unit in an area fire target zone - for each weapon fired in Area Suppression Mode. The standard for this value would be the probability that a given weapon will produce a tactically significant effect when fired at or swept over an area of ground appropriate in size to what would be typically occupied by an exposed, 9 to 13 man rifle squad for 15 seconds. Each weapon would have three percentile values that the Area Fire Hit die roll result would be tested against to determine casualty effect. If the Area Fire Hit die roll is higher than value X then there is no effect on the enemy unit. If the Area Fire Hit die roll is equal to or lower than X but higher than Y then the enemy unit is transiently suppressed. If the die roll is equal to or lower than Y then a miracle has occurred and a hit has been attained just as if the enemy unit were spotted and under normal direct fire. In the Y case the program would then simply enter the existing combat resolution routines and use the normal hit/casualty effect probabilities - doing this for Y values would be very economical code wise.
? Since the standard target is an exposed, deployed infantry squad sized target, then modifiers to the Area Fire Hit die roll would likely be appropriate for target units that conceptually occupy smaller or larger areas than the standard. Additional modifiers would likely be appropriate for target units that are 'harder' than exposed infantry such as infantry in defilade or in entrenchments, vehicles, etc.
? A unit must remain stationary to execute Area Fire?
? A unit firing Area Fire become active, revealed, and or spotted the same as if it were doing normal fire?
? A unit firing Area Fire expends ammunition at the same rate as if it were firing normal fire?
? A unit firing Area Fire expends more ammunition than it would if it were firing normal fire?
? A unit firing Area Fire will continue to do so until (a) its player owner turns off that mode of fire during an orders phase, (b) it runs out of ammunition, (c) it moves, or (d) it is effectively fired on and hit by return fire from an enemy unit?
? In the case of unspotted infantry targets - the customary suppression and or casualty effect symbols will not be shown to the firing player and effected unit markers will not be revealed to the firing player. In the case of vehicle targets - vehicle secondary explosions will be shown and a wreck marker will be placed, but effected unit markers will not be revealed to the firing player.
That ought to be enough to prime the pump ... I gotta get back to work on the TacOps 3.0 public beta/demo version.
------------------
Best regards, Major H
majorh1@aol.com
I will be providing some info on the inner workings of TacOps. I would rather not get into a deeper discussion of those inner workings under this thread title unless a tidbit specifically applies to the Area Fire issue. Otherwise this topic will degenerate into numerous tangents http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/smile.gif. If something in this discussion triggers an off topic question that you absolutely have to ask http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/smile.gif, then please do it with a new message that uses a different topic title.
Issue...
At present TacOps units - except for arty and mortars - can not shoot at an area that does not show spotted and active enemy units. Currently most units have to actually see an active target unit and have a reasonable chance of hitting and hurting it or else they won't fire at all. A number of users would like to be able to order every type of unit to fire at points or small areas of ground, even if no enemy unit is currently visible there and even if there is little or no chance of harming what is there - suppressive fire, recon by fire, that sort of thing. If implemented, this kind of fire would be no where near as effective as shooting at a visible active unit but it might be useful once in a while and it would be (or at least would seem to be) somewhat more realistic in some situations.
Background ...
There are two main types of data base records in TacOps that all else must build on - unit records and weapon records. Unit records define (among many other things) the number of people and the number and types of weapons that are in a given unit. A unit record defines the smallest possible unit marker in TacOps - usually an infantry team, an infantry squad, or one vehicle. Platoon and company markers are created simply by multiplying the base unit record. A weapon record defines the capabilities of one weapon - for example one M60 machine gun. In the case of most infantry small arms, a weapon's capabilities are based on a standard of 15 seconds of plausible activity/firing. In other words, the effect of firing a rifle or an M60 machine gun is based on the expectation that the weapon will fire one or more bursts over a fifteen second period. Whatever is done with Area Fire, it must start with probability table entries to unit and or weapon records.
Ideas...
The items below are not final decisions on my part. They are provided just as initial thoughts to get the discussion going.
? What to call the feature? We need a short, snappy name that intuitively communicates what the feature does. Short is very important because most likely the feature will be implemented with a button in the Unit Orders Window and nobody likes to see huge buttons. Area Fire? Direct Area Fire? Area Direct Fire? Suppress? Suppression Fire?
The feature should be activated by a new button in the unit orders window. Perhaps similar in operation to the "Set DFTRP" button?
Area fire will be very unlikely to kill hard targets such as armored vehicles? It will be reasonably likely to suppress and occasionally cause casualties to soft targets?
? How much ground should a basic level unit or weapon be allowed to try to suppress? How should the base suppression values be increased as base level units are assembled into platoon and company sized markers. Should this be handled with entries to the unit records, the weapons records, entries to both, and or with additional universal modifiers?
? Probability tables will likely be required to adjudicate the effects of the area fire of various classes of units and or weapons vs various classes of targets. One simple way to handle this would be to assign each weapon type an area fire probability table/values that determine how much ground the weapon can attempt to suppress and whether or not 'suppression' or 'a normal hit' is achieved on an unseen enemy unit that happens to be in the beaten zone of the area fire. Remembering that casualty producing 'hits' in area fire situations are accidents, there should be a very low probability of getting anything other than transient suppression.
? One approach would be to execute an Area Fire Hit die roll (a value between 1 and 100) against each enemy unit in an area fire target zone - for each weapon fired in Area Suppression Mode. The standard for this value would be the probability that a given weapon will produce a tactically significant effect when fired at or swept over an area of ground appropriate in size to what would be typically occupied by an exposed, 9 to 13 man rifle squad for 15 seconds. Each weapon would have three percentile values that the Area Fire Hit die roll result would be tested against to determine casualty effect. If the Area Fire Hit die roll is higher than value X then there is no effect on the enemy unit. If the Area Fire Hit die roll is equal to or lower than X but higher than Y then the enemy unit is transiently suppressed. If the die roll is equal to or lower than Y then a miracle has occurred and a hit has been attained just as if the enemy unit were spotted and under normal direct fire. In the Y case the program would then simply enter the existing combat resolution routines and use the normal hit/casualty effect probabilities - doing this for Y values would be very economical code wise.
? Since the standard target is an exposed, deployed infantry squad sized target, then modifiers to the Area Fire Hit die roll would likely be appropriate for target units that conceptually occupy smaller or larger areas than the standard. Additional modifiers would likely be appropriate for target units that are 'harder' than exposed infantry such as infantry in defilade or in entrenchments, vehicles, etc.
? A unit must remain stationary to execute Area Fire?
? A unit firing Area Fire become active, revealed, and or spotted the same as if it were doing normal fire?
? A unit firing Area Fire expends ammunition at the same rate as if it were firing normal fire?
? A unit firing Area Fire expends more ammunition than it would if it were firing normal fire?
? A unit firing Area Fire will continue to do so until (a) its player owner turns off that mode of fire during an orders phase, (b) it runs out of ammunition, (c) it moves, or (d) it is effectively fired on and hit by return fire from an enemy unit?
? In the case of unspotted infantry targets - the customary suppression and or casualty effect symbols will not be shown to the firing player and effected unit markers will not be revealed to the firing player. In the case of vehicle targets - vehicle secondary explosions will be shown and a wreck marker will be placed, but effected unit markers will not be revealed to the firing player.
That ought to be enough to prime the pump ... I gotta get back to work on the TacOps 3.0 public beta/demo version.
------------------
Best regards, Major H
majorh1@aol.com