Concrete bunker mod part 2

[Tanks a Lot]

After some excellent suggestions, I re-made my concrete bunker. New firing slit with stair-stepped edge. Anti-grenade mesh inside. Texture has a more mossy green look to it. Added some foliage around the base. New back door.

http://photos.netclubs.com/live/photos/photocenter/q/5/4/i/4iogd3g2ciakvfmutb9m109pp8/front%20bunker.jpg

http://photos.netclubs.com/live/photos/photocenter/q/5/4/i/4iogd3g2ciakvfmutb9m109pp8/back%20bunker.jpg

http://photos.netclubs.com/live/photos/photocenter/q/5/4/i/4iogd3g2ciakvfmutb9m109pp8/mesh.jpg

[Cubbies Phan]

Hey now, now that looks good. Although it's a bit too mossy, in my opinion. Meaning that it looks like what a concrete bunker would look like today, rather than what it would look like back in the '40s

Where's the winter version?

Keep the same look, you could add snow hanging off of the vegetation, or make them leafless.

[ 10-11-2001: Message edited by: Cubbies Phan ]

[Tanks a Lot]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cubbies Phan:
Hey now, now that looks good. Although it's a bit too mossy, in my opinion. Meaning that it looks like what a concrete bunker would look like today, rather than what it would look like back in the '40s

Where's the winter version?

Keep the same look, you could add snow hanging off of the vegetation, or make them leafless.

[ 10-11-2001: Message edited by: Cubbies Phan ]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Didn't they have moss back in the '40s?
:confused:
The mossy color blends in with the terrain better serving as camouflage. I'll probably remove it and the foliage when I get around to doing the winter version.

[Cubbies Phan]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tanks a Lot:



Didn't they have moss back in the '40s?
:confused:
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well yeah, but what I meant was that a concrete bunker would have been recently built back during the war would not have been around long enough to become mossy. Get my drift?


<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>The mossy color blends in with the terrain better serving as camouflage.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Granted it probably does. So I guess do whatever you want then.

[Tanks a Lot]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cubbies Phan:


Well yeah, but what I meant was that a concrete bunker would have been recently built back during the war would not have been around long enough to become mossy. Get my drift?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes that does make sense, but if it's damp enough, it wouldn't take too long. That reminds me, time to clean my shower.

[offtaskagain]

A good many of the Siegfried line bunkers were built around the time of the Maginot Line, so they would certainly have some growth on them.

[lcm1947]

I don't know I think it's about perfect as is right now. I really like the color and like you say it'll look extremely good against the landscape. Excellent job Tanks a lot. I'll certainly use it.

[Tanks a Lot]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lcm1947:
I don't know I think it's about perfect as is right now. I really like the color and like you say it'll look extremely good against the landscape. Excellent job Tanks a lot. I'll certainly use it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks again Lee.
I reduced the level of "mossyness" by about 25%. Nothing major but I think it's ready to go now.

[Jack Trap]

This, I swear, is my last suggestion: To really make that bevelled edge pop (that's desiger talk) then darken the top bevelled edge in relation to the two side bevels. If your light source is above, like say- the sun, then the top bevelled edge would be the most in shadow. But that's all mouse nuts (as a former design boss used to tell me). It looks really good. Thanks for sharing.

[John Kettler]

Tanks a Lot,

You've made considerable progress, but you're not there yet. Let me try a crude graphic to illustrate the concept I'm trying to convey.

Embrasure (side view) Not to scale

**************************
*
*
***
***
*= (MG or cannon here)
***
***
*
_________________________*____________________

The sides of the embrasure are also stairstepped, only laterally this time.

The screens should be on the outside, the idea being to keep grenades away from the embrasure
altogether. The mesh can be considerably larger, say, four to six inch squares or thereabouts. This keeps grenades out but facilitates aiming by the occupants.

Is there any way for you to paint a ventilator on the roof? Where is the door handle? We're talking about an armored door here. It's heavy. Is there any way to radius or maybe slightly blur all those hard primary corners in the basic structure's design?

I think you're going to have a marvelous looking fortification mod when you get done. I'm simply trying to help you flesh out a great basic concept.

Keep up the good work!

Regards,

John Kettler

[John Kettler]

Bah! The UBB demon scrambled my graphic! Think side view of stairstepped embrasure with no bevel whatsoever; sides of embrasure are stairstepped laterally. Overall effect is like
a partially open telescope.

Sorry for any confusion.

Regards,

John Kettler

[USTanker]

So where am I gonna be able to get this mod Tanks a Lot?

[Michael Dorosh]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by John Kettler:

The screens should be on the outside, the idea being to keep grenades away from the embrasure
altogether. The mesh can be considerably larger, say, four to six inch squares or thereabouts. This keeps grenades out but facilitates aiming by the occupants.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Was this commonly done in WW II? Chain link fencing wasn't all that common in Europe - where would the mesh come from? Would look great on an Israeli bus, on the other hand...

I agree that the top bevel would look super if it were darker.

[Panzer_Meyer]

Nice work Tanks. I always wanted to replace my bunker, it's to clean. Yours is perfect, keep up the great work!

[Tanks a Lot]

Thanks Rommel22. I made a few more changes after reading John Kettler's suggestions. I added a door handle to the rear door. Moved the screen farther out and made it a larger mesh. I made the firing slit much more simple to avoid problems. I can't really add a ventilator to the roof because there is no separate roof texture. Part of the side is stretched to make the roof. That also makes blurring the edges not look correct. Does this look better than before?

http://photos.netclubs.com/live/photos/photocenter/q/5/4/i/4iogd3g2ciakvfmutb9m109pp8/front.jpg

http://photos.netclubs.com/live/photos/photocenter/q/5/4/i/4iogd3g2ciakvfmutb9m109pp8/back.jpg

[Jeff Duquette]

Tanks A lot

The concrete Bunker looks great! The slight "mossing" effect is excellent. Being a civil engineer I look at a lot of concrete structures and you have captured the effect perfectly. It is amazing how quickly moss will discolor concrete.

I also like the added anti-grenade wire\cammo-net\mesh. Very nice detailing. I recall reading that the Marines in South Korea used chicken wire over weapon slits to keep grenades out…I dunno how common chicken wire was in S. Korea in the 1950's, but there seemed to be enough for the Marines to use in their bunkers. I reckon cammo netting could have been used to achieve the same effect.

I'm changing my bunker bmps tonight when I get home. Thanks Tanks.

So did Brens have tripods or not? ;)

[Jeff Duquette]

I forgot to ask...where can I download your bunker MOD from.

[Tanks a Lot]

Thanks Jeff,
I'll probably send it to The Last Defense Link (http://www.angelfire.com/ak5/TheLastDefense/index.html) when I'm done. The anti-grenade screen was John's idea and reducing the amount of moss was Cubbies Phan's.

[lcm1947]

Do let us know when and where Tanks a Lot. It's very very nice! I did however like the idea of a vent on top that John Kettler made but it's fine without also. And yes the color is perfect now. ;)

[Cubbies Phan]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tanks a Lot:
Thanks Jeff,
I'll probably send it to The Last Defense Link (http://www.angelfire.com/ak5/TheLastDefense/index.html) when I'm done. The anti-grenade screen was John's idea and reducing the amount of moss was Cubbies Phan's.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes that looks better. Now it looks like the bunker would look in the 1950s, LOL! Just kidding!

[gunnergoz]

I like it and I'd use it.

[John Kettler]

For the record, I never said word one about chain link fence. I did talk about wire mesh, of which I'm familiar with two main types in this sort of application. There's the gridded stuff I described and the much smaller hexagonal stuff so fine it'll even keep baby chicks from escaping.

Tanks a Lot, the fortification's looking good. I roger your technical problems and congratulate you on the door handles and the antigrenade screening, also for getting rid of the embrasure beveling completely. What are my chances of getting the stairstepping (narrowing rectangular funnel with square edges) around the embrasure?

Regards,

John Kettler

[Tanks a Lot]

John:
Is this the stairstepping you want?
Does the propaganda poster look out of place on the back of the bunker?

http://photos.netclubs.com/live/photos/photocenter/q/5/4/i/4iogd3g2ciakvfmutb9m109pp8/step.jpg

http://photos.netclubs.com/live/photos/photocenter/q/5/4/i/4iogd3g2ciakvfmutb9m109pp8/poster.jpg

[John Kettler]

Tanks a Lot,

Now we're making progress! What you need to do next is deepen the embrasure and use light and shadow to increase the visual contrast. As someone else suggested, you need to figure out where your presumed light source will be (alas, no dynamic lighting anytime soon) and position your shadows accordingly. The only way to have the light hit the embrasure the way you have it now is for the fortification to point due east and for it to be sunrise.

As for the propaganda poster, I personally have never seen photos of one on the outside of a fortification. I have real doubts about getting the thing to stick to rough concrete in the first place, and it would weather rapidly (deteriorate badly) even if it could be made to stay up. Personally, I'd suggest a painted slogan. Alternatively, try the door. The German speaking grogs here can no doubt help with suitable phrases.

I congratulate you on a tremendous piece of evolving work and on your willingness to listen to those trying to help you. Whoever hosts your mod will have a busy server. I know when people see your mod, they'll want it. They already want it!

Regards,

John Kettler

[aka_tom_w]

its ready, really its was ready several days ago

When and where can I download it??

It looks GREAT just release the damn thing!

NICE Work!!

-tom w

[Tanks a Lot]

Thanks John for your help. I improved the depth and shadowing and removed the poster. My image storing site is currently down so I can't show a picture now.

aka_tom_w:
I'll send both summer and winter versions to 109Gustav's site today.
The Last Defense (http://www.angelfire.com/ak5/TheLastDefense/index.html)

[Juju]

Tanks, that is one AWESOME bunker! Yeah! smile.gif

[Tanks a Lot]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Juju:
Tanks, that is one AWESOME bunker! Yeah! smile.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks Juju,
I love your new pavement mod. I think I'll be playing more city battles.

[mrcobbler]

Tanks, that final version is a great look.
I still can't find it at any of the sites yet.
Who will get it, and when?......
Thanks.

Shoeman

[Tanks a Lot]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mrcobbler:
Tanks, that final version is a great look.
I still can't find it at any of the sites yet.
Who will get it, and when?......
Thanks.

Shoeman<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks. It actually isn't the final version. I improved the stair stepping and removed the poster. I sent it to The Last Defense yesterday, but 109 Gustav may be having trouble with his e-mail.

[John Kettler]

Tanks a Lot,

Please post a picture of the latest design iteration. Am intensely curious!

Thanks!

John Kettler

[Tanks a Lot]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by John Kettler:
Tanks a Lot,

Please post a picture of the latest design iteration. Am intensely curious!

Thanks!

John Kettler<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I tried to deepen the look of the embrasure and increased the shadowing of the upper stairstepping.
I can't seem to get in touch with 109 Gustav. I don't know if he ever received my mod.


http://photos.netclubs.com/live/photos/photocenter/q/5/4/i/4iogd3g2ciakvfmutb9m109pp8/new%20step.jpg

[lcm1947]

Extremely fine looking bunker. The detail is great and coloring couldn't be any better. Thanks for your time and the work that went into it.

[John Kettler]

Tanks a Lot,

Keep this up and you'll be working for KwazyDog! I'm sure it took hours to make all the requested improvements, but you have every right to pat yourself vigorously on the back. The improvements are dramatic.

Would it be possible to pull the point of view out some, that we might see what this looks like in a tactical environment, rather than being practically in the firing slit? Whether you can do this or not, congratulations!

Sincerely,

John Kettler

[Tanks a Lot]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by John Kettler:
Tanks a Lot,

Keep this up and you'll be working for KwazyDog! I'm sure it took hours to make all the requested improvements, but you have every right to pat yourself vigorously on the back. The improvements are dramatic.

Would it be possible to pull the point of view out some, that we might see what this looks like in a tactical environment, rather than being practically in the firing slit? Whether you can do this or not, congratulations!

Sincerely,

John Kettler<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks again John.
I think it's improved because of suggestions from you and others. Thanks for the help and nice comments.

http://photos.netclubs.com/live/photos/photocenter/q/5/4/i/4iogd3g2ciakvfmutb9m109pp8/above.jpg

[Pascal DI FOLCO]

TanksALot, just a word :
GREAT !

SEND ME ONE PLEEEAASSEE !! :D :D
And I'll post it as usual smile.gif

[ 10-15-2001: Message edited by: Pascal DI FOLCO ]

[Tanks a Lot]

I would like to thank Pascal DI FOLCO for temporarily hosting my bunkers. You can get them from the link a couple of posts down.

[ 10-16-2001: Message edited by: Tanks a Lot ]

[John Kettler]

Tanks a Lot,

Outstanding!!!

Keep up the great work!

Sincerely,

John Kettler

[Pascal DI FOLCO]

HERE IT IS FOR ALL OF YOU !!
I proudly host this superb mods at :
Tanks A Lot Summer-Winter Bunkers (http://perso.wanadoo.fr/pdifolco/Summer-winter%20bunkers.zip)

Tanks A Lot,
Thanks A Lot tongue.gif tongue.gif - no problem with the filesize, I have ADSL smile.gif
I suggest you make another post with your mod picture and the link... or at least edit your post to tell it's ready ! ;)

[danvnuk]

Hi Pascal,
I seem to be having problems with that download link, it gets to 99% and then times out. Its happened 3 times now.
Oh...make that 4 times :(

[ 10-16-2001: Message edited by: danvnuk ]

[Pascal DI FOLCO]

Danvnuk,
I don't understand what sh*t happens, I just tried the link under IE5.5 and it's okay :confused: :confused:
But other people complained, so I'll ask my ISP...
What browser do you use ? Have any special dload software (DAP, Gozilla, SmartDL...) ???
Anyway I'll send it to you via email this evening (in Europe).

[danvnuk]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pascal DI FOLCO:
Danvnuk,
I don't understand what sh*t happens, I just tried the link under IE5.5 and it's okay :confused: :confused:
But other people complained, so I'll ask my ISP...
What browser do you use ? Have any special dload software (DAP, Gozilla, SmartDL...) ???
Anyway I'll send it to you via email this evening (in Europe).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Pascal,

using IE 5.5 tried the link normally, and then when it failed with GetRight, Still no joy. First time I have come across this problem.
I have mailed you my home mail address.
Thanks a lot in advance, your a gent.
:D

[Richard Morgan]

I went to the Last Defence site and couldn't find the pillbox mod. I was redirected to Combat Missions and it wasn't there either (although a very good wooden bunker mod was).

Could you PLEEEEESE email it direct to me at richard@boatbrentonian.freeserve.co.uk

Cheers,

Richard

[Tanks a Lot]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Richard Morgan:
I went to the Last Defence site and couldn't find the pillbox mod. I was redirected to Combat Missions and it wasn't there either (although a very good wooden bunker mod was).

Could you PLEEEEESE email it direct to me at richard@boatbrentonian.freeserve.co.uk

Cheers,

Richard<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Here is the link.

Concrete bunkers (http://www.angelfire.com/ak5/TheLastDefense/Modspages/othermods/othermods.html)

[Peter Panzer]

...gee folks, ya'll reckon this guy knows how to convincingly render concrete?

slick, tanksalot.

...would you consider applying your skills toward the paved road .bmp's? seeing as both you and juju have heightened the quality of the pavement, as well as the heavy, stone structures, the current road textures have a rather limp-wristed air...

[Tanks a Lot]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Peter Panzer:
...gee folks, ya'll reckon this guy knows how to convincingly render concrete?

slick, tanksalot.

...would you consider applying your skills toward the paved road .bmp's? seeing as both you and juju have heightened the quality of the pavement, as well as the heavy, stone structures, the current road textures have a rather limp-wristed air...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I'm currently "winterizing" my large buildings. Maybe after that.

[Cubbies Phan]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Peter Panzer:
...gee folks, ya'll reckon this guy knows how to convincingly render concrete?

slick, tanksalot.

...would you consider applying your skills toward the paved road .bmp's? seeing as both you and juju have heightened the quality of the pavement, as well as the heavy, stone structures, the current road textures have a rather limp-wristed air...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Did you ever grab Pud's roads. They are very nice. Find them
here (http://members.dingoblue.net.au/~mudansha/terrain.html).

[Peter Panzer]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I'm currently "winterizing" my large buildings.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

...that sounds tasty as well.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Did you ever grab Pud's roads.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

...yes, thanks for the heads-up. a cut above the stock versions to be sure, however they fail to cater to my fussy, indulgent predilections - especially when one takes a gander at what is currently coming out of the works. in terms of concrete/pavement/stone, tanksalot and juju have raised the bar considerably...

[Holien]

For those of you into pillboxes I have just been given a site that will give you heaps of designs to look at.

After our meeting in London Justin posted this site to me.

Take A look, I hope some modders can use it to effect.

A GREAT SITE.

http://www.britarch.ac.uk/projects/dob/month.html

Just found this with a neat drawing of a spigot mortar which I had heard of but never seen.

http://www.worcestershire.gov.uk/home/index/cs-index/cs-archeo/cs-archeo-surv-defence-bombard.htm


H

[ 11-18-2001: Message edited by: Holien ]</p>

[ParaBellum]

Great work, Tanks a lot!

Just because of this beauty I think I'm gonna buy one in one of my next PBEMs.