KOREA ;- CM2 the next step.

[Peter Cairns]

Given that CM2 will add not only soviet equipement but lend lease, much of the inventory for a korea version will be in place.

In addition the feedback on the terrain and climate additions for CM2 would seem to suggest that much of the unique nature of the Korean pennisula could also be done off
the shelf.

Is this something that peoplewould be interested in????

Peter.

[Andreas]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Peter Cairns:
Is this something that peoplewould be interested in????<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh yes! Korea would be great, and IMO much more interesting than doing a Pacific Theatre CM (which won't be done anyway, but I just threw that in for confusion).

[Stixx]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Germanboy:


Oh yes! Korea would be great, and IMO much more interesting than doing a Pacific Theatre CM (which won't be done anyway, but I just threw that in for confusion).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


ROFL

:D :D :D

[Louie the Toad]

Personally I am eager for the "early years"
'39 to '43 or so, (western europe and the desert) and so I hope all resources after CMBB are used to develop this highly interesting and very exciting period. smile.gif

[WWB]

I would much rather see 'Fulda Gap: 1950' than Korea or early war.

WWB

[kmead]

In all likelyhood you will not be able to create either one of these fine ideas as the game is designed to not allow friendly fire. Meaning of course that the lend lease equip in CMBB cannot fight the soviet equip. Now from a BTS standpoint this would be a relatively simple conversion aside from the work needed to create the unit structures and the new faces under the helmets and lambswool hats...

[jKMkIII]

Korea would be nice, haven't seen many games from it. Pacific would be total boredom.. again those boring yanks. And Fulda 1950 could be ok.

But early war and desert would, or should I say will be, be cool smile.gif

[Mark IV]

PTO would not be boring, and Korea would be great.

If you make a scenario of the Falaise Gap massacre it will be boring, too. Omaha Beach might be exciting for one side, but the whole idea of blasting mostly helpless targets for 30-40 turns doesn't make for a great scenario.

If you focus on the more challenging aspects of the PTO, you will have a great game. It wasn't all digging out fanatical snipers after blowing up islands with naval fire. A company or two of jarheads moving in after the arty is over are going to have an exciting day, anyway. Philippines, Malaya, Burma, New Guinea, to name a few, would support large-scale scenarios, and rumor has it there was some shooting going on in China, too.

You would have Brit, Aussie, Kiwi, Dutch, Indian, Chinese, and others, besides Yanks.

I think Korea should be CM5, though.

[Stacheldraht]

Another vote for the PTO. Korea would be interesting too. It's really sad how neglected that war and its vets are, not that making a game about it will change much.

[Slapdragon]

I would love to see Korea done, but BTS has already said thay have no plans for doing it, nor the Pacific (which they see more as a walk over for US forces).

Of course BTS could go public and hire 36 programmers, changing everything, but I think this was their last public word on the subject.

[Stacheldraht]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>which they see more as a walk over for US forces<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Tell that to the Marines.

[Slapdragon]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Stacheldraht:


Tell that to the Marines.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

In the sense that the island's campaign was overwhelming force against a trapped enemy, not in the sense that their was not human cost associated with it. As it was explained to me, BTS was not as interested in doing a game that would have accurately simulated the fighting in the Pacific.

[PzKpfw 1]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Germanboy:


Oh yes! Korea would be great, and IMO much more interesting than doing a Pacific Theatre CM (which won't be done anyway, but I just threw that in for confusion).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


LOL what an lil instigator :D ;).....


Regards, John Waters

[Peter Cairns]

I ageewiththe commentonthe koreaVets gettinga bad deal, over here in the Uk it is being refered to as "The forgotten War" which reallynsums itup. In British terms it is over shadowed by WW2 and I think Vietnam seems to have overtaken it in US eyes, although that's perhaps not a comment I should make from this side of the Atlantic.

At the end of the day they should be judged on the task they faced and the price they paid rather than what came before or after and on that score I for one think they deserve better than they've got.

Peter.

[Michael Dorosh]

I've done a lot of research on the Korean War, and include Korean vets as personal friends, but I am not sure there is a marketable "game" in it. The majority of the war was either poorly equipped troops being overrun (South Koreans by North Koreans, then North Koreans by Americans, then Americans by Chinese) and eventually a war of small unit actions and patrols, with little armour.

I personally love company sized games with little or no armour, but I think I am in the minority.

Perhaps if CM ever covered the modern era, it could be lumped in as a game covering 1950-2000 ala Steel Panthers.

[MikeT]

Mike, personally I wish that BTS would simply modify one exe file with Russian armor/troops for one side and US armor/troops on the other. Let us gamer-modders do the rest. We can and would quickly modify existing bmps and wav files and make our own battles. It shouldn't, technically speaking, be difficult since nearly all the hardware does existing in CM1 and CM2.

MikeT

[lcm1947]

You know what would really be cool - the "Cold War". That would really be so ----wait a minute. Never mind. OK, on second thought Korea would be better but yeah not too much armor would be involved but man the infantry battles would be cool. But I do believe Korea was the forgotten war. That was one I'm glad I wasn't in. Too damn cold!!!!!!!! and wet. That had to be bad.

[Andreas]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PzKpfw 1:



LOL what an lil instigator :D ;).....


Regards, John Waters<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Me? Would I ever? (innocent bunny look)

[Gyrene]

I for one would love to see a Korean War mod to CM.

The new changes in CMBB would be needed to properly allow small numbers of defenders to hold off against massed attackers.

There were lots of gallant actions by non-US UN units in Korea, so all you Yankophobes would also get enjoyment of a Korean War CM version ;)

Plus, it's the only place to pit M26's against T34's!

And if you hate Jabos now, wait until you run across USMC Close Air Support. ;)

Gyrene

[mensch]

Pacific Theatre CM, now there's a challange! oh come on guys! it would be great. I have 2000 Imperial troops sitting on an island and you bypass me, not bothering to fight cuz you know I fight to the last man, you cut off my supply lines, we end up eating every coconut, monkey and insects on the island and pbems would be fun to watch US ships pass by the island, wondering when they are going to attack so we could fight like honorable warriors, off and on you send messages to me to surrender cuz there is no hope since we are cut off, etc... I message back "never you American Dogs, come and fight like true warriors" this goes on till the war comes to an end and we still hold out a year longer before our commander does the harikari thing and we say "bollocks to this I'm hungry and Have not seen my rock garden for 3 years now, besides Private Huko is starting to look attractive to me and that's scaring me more so"

[ParaBellum]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mensch:
Pacific Theatre CM, now there's a challange! oh come on guys! it would be great. I have 2000 Imperial troops sitting on an island and you bypass me, not bothering to fight cuz you know I fight to the last man, you cut off my supply lines, we end up eating every coconut, monkey and insects on the island and pbems would be fun to watch US ships pass by the island, wondering when they are going to attack so we could fight like honorable warriors, off and on you send messages to me to surrender cuz there is no hope since we are cut off, etc... I message back "never you American Dogs, come and fight like true warriors" this goes on till the war comes to an end and we still hold out a year longer before our commander does the harikari thing and we say "bollocks to this I'm hungry and Have not seen my rock garden for 3 years now, besides Private Huko is starting to look attractive to me and that's scaring me more so"<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


:D LOL!

Thx, Mensch, that was exactly what I needed now!

[Wilhammer]

Did not BTS say they were to have some captured vehicles?

If they made it possible for the Germans to run captured Easy 8s, Chaffees, and M3A1 HT. we could do most of the war. We would not of course have the M-42 Duster (A Whirblewind will do) nor the Pershings.

[Barticus]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gyrene:

And if you hate Jabos now, wait until you run across USMC Close Air Support. ;)

Gyrene<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Corsairs and Panthers and Mustangs, OH MY!

[Soddball]

What about F-86s? You could have an awful lot of fun with a few of those - or maybe a Vulcan on a bombing run? :D

[ 07-13-2001: Message edited by: Soddball ]

[Scooter]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Peter Cairns:


Is this something that peoplewould be interested in????

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Peter,
No thanks.

[engy]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:
The majority of the war was either poorly equipped troops being overrun (South Koreans by North Koreans, then North Koreans by Americans, then Americans by Chinese) and eventually a war of small unit actions and patrols, with little armour.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry Michael, but I'm going to disagree. Using the US Army resources at
www.army.mil (http://www.army.mil) reveals how much armor was a part of the Korean battlefield for both the North Koreans and US/ROK forces. Specifically South to the Naktong, North to the Yalu (http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/books/korea/20-2-1/toc.htm) and Combat Actions in Korea (http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/books/korea/30-2/30-2_con.htm) give wonderfully detailed accounts of individual battles and firefights, tracking the actions of both infantry and tank platoons. Armor plays an important part in many (I'd like to say 'most', but I haven't reread it in awhile and I don't want to kill my argument by exaggerating) of those accounts, and I can easily visulize those battles as very playable CM scenarios.

As far as 'poorly equipped troops being overrun'...well, was that not historically the case in the spring of 1945 in our current incarnation of CM, and will it not be the case in summer/fall of 1941 in CM:B2B? Besides, I like to think of the initial stage of the Korean War as a 'fighting withdrawal to consolidate our postion'...it sounds so much nicer than being overrun. smile.gif

To everyone else, if you haven't done any reading on the Korean War, I highly recommend the two links above. The stories are in plain text files so the formatting is a bit ugly, but the accounts themselves are quite easy to read, very informative, and very engaging.

[ 07-13-2001: Message edited by: engy ]

[PzKpfw 1]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Germanboy:


Me? Would I ever? (innocent bunny look)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


God!!! not your classic innocent bunny look :D..


Regards, John Waters

[PzKpfw 1]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gyrene:

And if you hate Jabos now, wait until you run across USMC Close Air Support. ;)

Gyrene<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

How do you call dropping Marines W/o parachutes, on the enemy CAS :D....

Regards, John Waters

[Juardis]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Peter Cairns:
Is this something that peoplewould be interested in????

Peter.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, ever since the first month of playing CMBO back in June of last year the thought of the CM engine and Korea has been a recurring wet dream for me smile.gif

[Gen-x87H]

Sure I could go for a Korean Version if and only if the following is done first.

1. The Desert War + Sicily + Italy
2. Early War
3. Total all encompassing game where you can pit all forces on all forces.

Then go ahead and do anything you like.

Gen

[MikeT]

Gen-x87H, have you checked out the downloads at www.dfdr.net? (http://www.dfdr.net?) With these you can get the feel of desert warfare. Plus I did work up some conversions of existing boardgame scenarios for Italy, Sicily, and desert. Now perfect nor ideal but they are workable.

MikeT

[Dan Robertson]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MikeT:
Mike, personally I wish that BTS would simply modify one exe file with Russian armor/troops for one side and US armor/troops on the other. Let us gamer-modders do the rest. We can and would quickly modify existing bmps and wav files and make our own battles. It shouldn't, technically speaking, be difficult since nearly all the hardware does existing in CM1 and CM2.

MikeT<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You are forgetting that to ave a proper Korea you need the uber tank of the theatre to Centurian MK3 with its lovely 20pdr gun

[Michael Dorosh]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by engy:


Sorry Michael, but I'm going to disagree. Using the US Army resources at
www.army.mil (http://www.army.mil) reveals how much armor was a part of the Korean battlefield for both the North Koreans and US/ROK forces. Specifically South to the Naktong, North to the Yalu (http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/books/korea/20-2-1/toc.htm) and Combat Actions in Korea (http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/books/korea/30-2/30-2_con.htm) give wonderfully detailed accounts of individual battles and firefights, tracking the actions of both infantry and tank platoons. Armor plays an important part in many (I'd like to say 'most', but I haven't reread it in awhile and I don't want to kill my argument by exaggerating) of those accounts, and I can easily visulize those battles as very playable CM scenarios.
[ 07-13-2001: Message edited by: engy ]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

After the mobile battles of 1950-51, tanks were mainly used as pillboxes, or as indirect artillery. Yes, you are correct in drawing a comparison between WW II and Korea in that armour is usually vastly overrepresented in media accounts (I include computer games in here too) of WW II.