Any PBEM feedback on the Kursk pack yet?

[Chad Harrison]

I am looking to play one of the Kursk battles via PBEM, and I am wondering if anyone has gotton far enough into one of them to give some PBEM feedback.

If someone is also interested in playing one, drop me a line at ftoalma@msn.com. I might even play one of the big ones! :eek:

Chad

[MAUS_TD]

Hello Chad,
iam playing the opening moment. This is a superb battle. Iam currently around round 35 and got already three flags.
I've your going to pbem this one it will take a while.
The nice part of the battle is that wittmann is back and you get alot of tanks.
There are some things i dont understand.
the first is wittmann was then already elite not just crack, the second i thought 1ss panzer was a elite div, but most of your troops arent even veteran. So when a russian gun pops up you see everbody ran like hell get shot up and die.
The third one is i read there where about 26 guns one mile of front i think they are in this one too.
So the main thing to do in this battle is advance only with your tigers than behind them your other panzers then your mobile inf.
I put almost all of my troops in the middle and advanced by the road.

[rune]

Minor Spoilers Below
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I disagree, I consider him a crack unit. Elites gain too much of an advantage.

A veteran unit does not mean everyone is a veteran. If you look, very few green units and no conscript. LSSAH had received reinforcements that were mixed into their units before the assault. I think the mix is correct.

The guns I won't comment on, since I don't want to spoil anything, your tactics are EXACTLY what LSSAH used that day. Excellent job!

Rune

[ July 18, 2003, 07:37 AM: Message edited by: rune ]

[Cpl Carrot]

Offer sent.

Cpl Carrot

Edit: Four words and I can't get them right :(

[ July 18, 2003, 08:10 AM: Message edited by: Cpl Carrot ]

[WWB]

Echoing what Rune says--LSAH (as well as the rest of the SS Panzer Korps) were considered the cream of the crop. They had also been bled white in the winter's fighting--LSSAH nearly single handedly re-took Kharkov for example.

By the spring they were very understrength and had to be nearly completely rebuilt. What this should translate to in CM terms is fit, green-reg units for the most part, with veteran leadership and lots of bonuses.

WWB

[MAUS_TD]

thnx rune,

didnt know that 1ss panzer did had the same tactics as i had, but you are right maybe elite is to much for wittman, again i must say to the designers EXCELLENT battle. I'll hope they wil continue to make them.
Also i know now 1ss panzer was just reinforced so
that is why there are no crack squads

[Alkiviadis]

LSAH got a draft of 3000 ex Luftwaffe ground crews that were "volunteered for the SS" several weeks before the assault. Also re: the "von Lauchert" scenario - troop quality levels need modification to reflect reality. Specifically, the von Lauchert Panther brigade was not even green!
The following is a quote from "Kursk: The German View" edited & translated by Steven Newton, page 387: "...Few of the crews or commanding officers were veterans, much less possessed of combat experience in Russia. Aside from the known technical deficiencies of the Panthers, neither unit (both Panther battalions) had ever conducted battalion maneuvers or even exercised it's tactical radio network...The resulting comedy of errors had nothing to do with the infamous teething problems and everything to do with the inexperience of their crews and the ineptitude of their commanders...one observer noted the two battalions moved to attack without either Decker or von Lauchert, 'issuing situational orders. the companies knew absolutely nothing about the attack plans. Confusion set in from the start since neither objectives, formation, or direction were ordered.' ...Without training above the platoon level or effective radios." Newton's sources are the 4th PzA's KTB and Jentz Panzertruppen Vol. 2.
So I suggest loading the scenario into the editor and reducing the Panther crews' troop quality, say 1 vet and 3 regulars, set the rest to green and recruit.

[rune]

And you would be wrong. That was the initial assault, if you keep reading, once the acting commander got them together, the few panthers left operated well together. The battle you see is after the poor showing of the Panthers initially. The crews themselves had experience after the poor showing they had.

Rune

[Thin Red Line]

I played Opening Moment in PBEM as the Germans, and won a major victory (my opponent surrenderent at turn 86, otherwise it would have been a tactical.
Good show from the Tigers, two of them abandonned after immobilization by small caliber guns. They led the convoy and blasted almost anything that was trying to interfer with their advance. They left the road and turned right toward the big flag (not the last one, the one before). I was quite worried to let them go off road because of the ground conditions but finally it went right.
According to my opponent, the battle can be quite frustrating for a human Russian player.