CM in total rest and full processor load: now I know I'm not insane, please replicate

[Nabla]

I've been suspecting for a long time that at least on my machine CM is making the processor run on full load even when it should be totally idle. The evidence has been clear: the fan of the laptop is on all the time when running CM, even when CM should be doing nothing (like when I'm just viewing the startup screen with the main menu).

Now I've proved that this is the case on my machine, and the little voices have gone away. http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/biggrin.gif I'd like someone to try to replicate the situation so that I know where to start looking for a solution.

Ok, this is what I did. I downloaded a CPU load monitor from Idyle software (works in Windows 98, if you have win 2000 I'm not sure which monitor works there). The address is http://www.idyle.com/download/index.html I started the monitor. Then I started CM so that the startup menu popped up, and did absolutely nothing for quite a while. The fan started running again, as usual. Then I went back to the desktop (pressed ESC), and looked at the monitor, and, surprise surprise, the [b]processor had been running on full load all the time I was just looking at the startup screen. Furthermore, when I put CM on background again and did nothing on the computer, the load dropped to only 50%, showing that CM was still very active in the background.[b] I replicated the situation a couple of times on my computer.

Now I don't have to go and see the doctor. http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/biggrin.gif Pretty please with sugar on top, please replicate this so that I'll know what to do.

I'm going to go to sleep now. See you tomorrow.


[This message has been edited by Nabla (edited 03-26-2001).]

[mPisi]

I wonder where the BTS team is in the distributed.net standings if they are running the client in the background of everyone's machines to save those unused cycles... http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/biggrin.gif

(Sorry Nabla, nothing useful to add...)

[FriendlyFire]

Yup. So what? I believe this is a normal 3D game interface "feature" - when you launch a 3D game you're changing from a nice, peaceful, event-driven Win32 interface, where no-one ever does much, to OpenGL/Direct3D/whatever, where the CPU is sitting in a very tight loop getting wayyy too intimate with the display driver (even if it's only showing you the start menu). Makes perfect sense if you're writing a twitch-based game like Quake.

Note that CM's load is NOT constant, however: my laptop's fan will only turn on when plotting moves in unit-heavy landscapes, or showing turn movies. At other times, it turns off http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/smile.gif

[Nabla]

Had to add one more thing before I myself crash. http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/smile.gif The full load might not be a problem otherwise, but the computer is overheating only when playing CM and locking up only when playing CM, and this has been happening [b]a lot[b]. It really reduces the gaming experience, having to reboot every 15-30 minutes. http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/frown.gif

[Nabla]

Friendlyfire, you may be right, but with a 700 MHz Pentium III the processor has a full load in the totally idle startup screen. How much more loaded can it get?


[This message has been edited by Nabla (edited 03-26-2001).]

[Tanks a Lot]

System monitor shows the cpu load is under 10 percent when I run Combat Mission in the background.

[Abbott]

Hmm, CM was running hot on my PIII 600 as well. I was getting the processor heat warning beep when running CM. I D/L a small utility called "Rain". It ended the warning signal but I am starting to wonder if it did not reset some commands inside my CPU. The performance I am used to from my PC seems to have changed slightly.

[Schrullenhaft]

Nabla - what laptop are you using ? Have you checked with this manufacturer to find out if they're having any overheating problems ? I'm not sure what your video chip may contribute to the overheating (though I wouldn't think a 2D screen would really be a problem). Have you tried any other DirectX games with your laptop to see if they have a problem. It may be a driver/power saving problem that is causing problems with your laptop.

[Zakalwe]

I'm experiencing a similar problem. CM is the only program causing regular crashes. I'm running a PII 350 at 500 Mhz, but it has been rock solid until I started playing CM. Cm usually inflicts a crash after 20-30 minuntes of playing - even if I'm not plotting or doing anything else.

[Schrullenhaft]

Zakalwe - have you tried clocking-down your CPU to see if it makes a difference ? I'm not sure how much more CM may stress the floating point section of your CPU. It's possible, that in conjunction with your video drivers that you may end up crashing with the higher clock speeds.

[KwazyDog]

Nabla, I think maybe there must be a setting on your system that could be the cause of what you are seeing.

Right at this moment I am running 3 IE Windows, Photoshop, 3D Max, ACDSee, 2 Explorer Windows and Combat. Im sure it wouldnt be possible for me to use both Photoshop and 3D Max (which is very resource hungry) if Combat Mission were using up a good chunk of my resources.

I wish I could provide more help, but thought that may be of interest.

Dan

[Wreck]

Nabla, my system also runs at 100% load when the game is active. And that regardless of being on the opening screen doing nothing. When minimized, though, load is as I expect... 5% or so.

Methinks it is a bug.

To those in this thread getting crashes only when playing CM: that should not be happening regardless of the fact that CM is hogging the processor. If it is heat-related, you need either (a) a lower wattage processor, (b) a better heatsink/fan, or (c) better case ventilation.

[Mr. Clark]

I also get 100% CPU usage while simply sitting on the startup screen.
I only get about 5% usage when CM is minimized however.

I have an AMD K6-2 @ 380 mhz.

I never get overheats or lockups in CM however, even playing for hours.

------------------
"Fear is for the enemy... Fear and Bullets."
"They didn't want to come... but I told em, by jeepers, it was an order."

[Nabla]

Good morning everyone. Thank you very, very much for your replies and for replicating my experiment.

I think (hope? http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/smile.gif) that we can agree on three things now.
1) The CM start-up screen does cause the processor to run at full load when it is in the foreground, at least for some persons. We don't know whether this is true for all machines. No counterexamples have been reported so far in this thread.
2) The background load problem seems to be the prerogative of only a few persons (so far only myself). http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/smile.gif
3) The systems should not lock up even if CM is making them run on full load. However, the machines people have are not perfect and the full load seems to be causing problems for some of us.

Ok, on my behalf I will start to work on notes 2 and 3 above. I'll continue experiments with the background load and the heating, and when I have enough information I'll try to contact HP (the notebook I'm using is Omnibook 6000).

BTS: could you please give some kind of statement on point 1. That is, should the system be running on full load in the startup screen, or is this a bug? I would also be very pleased if more people who have lockup problems could replicate what I've seen here, so that we can gather more information about the relationship between overheating and lockups.

Thank you very much.

[This message has been edited by Nabla (edited 03-27-2001).]

[Nabla]

Hi again!

Could someone tell me where I could find some 3D DirectX test program that I can use to really torture the processor for a long time? I have to check if I can replicate the lockup problem with another program (in addition to CM).

Thank you very much in advance.

[grunto2]

try running defrag.

i had a friend on a pentium 166 who was always crashing. he ran defrag and the problems went away.

i run fine on a celeron 400.

andy

[SlowMotion]

nabla:
3DMark2000 allows you to specify how many times a test should be repeated. I don't know if there is any upper limit...

[Zakalwe]

Thanks for the suggestions on resolving the problem. I was quite certain it wasn't a heat issue, since my CPU runs quite cool even when CM is tormenting it. After spending several hours with diagnostic programs, I finally managed to isolate the problem. Turns out I had forgotten to tone down my graphics card overclocking when I was last tweaking it... so it was mea culpa all along. I tossed out some mods and dropped the resolution a notch, and everything seems to work OK.

Of course, even if the full processor load was a factor in the crashes, I have absolutely no beef with BTS, once you start seriously tweaking your machine, you're on your own.




[This message has been edited by Zakalwe (edited 03-27-2001).]

[SenorBeef]

Originally posted by Nabla:
I've been suspecting for a long time that at least on my machine CM is making the processor run on full load even when it should be totally idle. The evidence has been clear: the fan of the laptop is on all the time when running CM, even when CM should be doing nothing (like when I'm just viewing the startup screen with the main menu).

Now I've proved that this is the case on my machine, and the little voices have gone away. http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/biggrin.gif I'd like someone to try to replicate the situation so that I know where to start looking for a solution.

Ok, this is what I did. I downloaded a CPU load monitor from Idyle software (works in Windows 98, if you have win 2000 I'm not sure which monitor works there). The address is http://www.idyle.com/download/index.html I started the monitor. Then I started CM so that the startup menu popped up, and did [b]absolutely nothing for quite a while. The fan started running again, as usual. Then I went back to the desktop (pressed ESC), and looked at the monitor, and, surprise surprise, the processor had been running on full load all the time I was just looking at the startup screen. Furthermore, when I put CM on background again and did nothing on the computer, the load dropped to only 50%, showing that CM was still very active in the background.[b] I replicated the situation a couple of times on my computer.

Now I don't have to go and see the doctor. http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/biggrin.gif Pretty please with sugar on top, please replicate this so that I'll know what to do.

I'm going to go to sleep now. See you tomorrow.


[This message has been edited by Nabla (edited 03-26-2001).]


Alright, I did a test with precise monitoring software (tracks CPU usage by thread)
When in the foreground, it takes up every last bit of CPU thats idle. Around 85% on my system, because I was running some other stuff - so if you're not doing anything else, it would be 100% or so. Also, when in the background, the CM thread used NO cpu power whatsoever.
Also, I don't remember the specifics of this - but if an application is running at 100% cpu power, I believe that just means that its allocating (reserving) that much CPU time to itself, which doesn't mean its actually doing any math with all of those cycles.. but I'm not sure. I can't see why the CM startup screen would be sucking up 90% of my cpu otherwise.
---
Tested it, that guess was wrong - running the CM starting screen jumped my CPU up 15 degrees in a minute.
Maybe they have a stray loop doing unnecesary work in there somewhere.. or its the nature of 3d games.

[ckoharik]

Originally posted by SenorBeef:
Maybe they have a stray loop doing unnecesary work in there somewhere.. or its the nature of 3d games.

I would definitely love to hear BTS's take on this. I didn't think the 3D engine was in use until you actually went into battle.

-Chris

[Mr. Clark]

Has anyone tried monitoring another D3D game and its processor usage... to compare to CM?

I would give it a go right now, except I have no other 3D game installed at the moment... I must put Jane's WWII back on there soon...

One note about my scores reported earlier:
I also had Outlook Express, plus IE running in the background... so that may have caused the 5% processor usage when CM was minimized.

[Nabla]

BTS: could you please throw us a bone concerning processor load with the startup screen (see messages above).

My own examinations about heating are still continuing...

[Nabla]

Bupumpiduh...

Bumping for BTS's opinion.

[Nabla]

Just ran a test with 3DMark2000 in order to create a lockup with another program. Ran the test for over an hour: processor red-hot and the fan on all the time, but no lockups.

Now guys, I can't take the machine to service and say: "Well, there's this one program that makes the machine lock up. Just click here, then select Quick Battle, take 1500 points, Allied defender..." http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/biggrin.gif Any other suggestions for a (freely available) program that I might use to try to get a lockup.

[Nabla]

Just got an email from BTS: the question has been passed on to someone who should know the answer. So the final word is on its way. http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/smile.gif

[KwazyDog]

Hi Guys,

OK, I thought I better do some testing here and give you guys the results. I downloaded the above program you suggest Nabla and tested it with a few other games. The good news is that the fact that CM uses 100% CPU time even when at the interface screen is totally normal. I tested the following games with the same results...

Operation Flashpoint
Railroad Tycoon
Unreal Tournament
Settlers 4

All of these games used 100% CPU time when maximised whilst at the first selection screen, and in fact the last two games used 100% resources even when the game interface is minimised. I would guess that it is to do with the fact that these interfaces are using DirectX libraries etc, but I'm just guessing http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/wink.gif

Dan

[This message has been edited by KwazyDog (edited 03-28-2001).]

[Nabla]

Yes, very interesting indeed. Now there's one more thing we'll have to check: processor temperature, that is, whether all of these programs increase the temperature of the processor as much as CM does when they are "idle" (menu or something else non-3D).

I don't have a processor temperature monitor in my PC, but I'll try to find one (I don't know whether it has to be supplied by the manufacturer). At least I can run some of the game demos to see if my computer gets hot and the fan turns on. If someone has a temperature monitor in their PC I'd surely be ecstatic if that someone could run the test (at least for some games mentioned above there are demos you can use in the test).

Just this one test and we're done. http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by Nabla (edited 03-28-2001).]

[Nabla]

On the basis of a quick test I'd say that you're so very right! I downloaded the demo of Railroad Tycoon, and the startup screen is making the machine run just as hot.
On the defense side I must say that I've really been looking for any possible angle that would help me solve the lockup problem, and when I saw this feature I thought it made some sense. However, now its back to the drawing board... http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/smile.gif The weird thing is that I've not been able to replicate the lockup situation with any other program. CM is really the ultimate stability test, as someone wrote on this board.

Thank you very much for interest and co-operation. I myself will leave this subject for a while and focus on PBEMing, which is the best thing since ... well, what? http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/biggrin.gif