ROW V scenarios...

[Richie]

With the finals under way and all the AAR's in, I guess it's time for the designers to own up.

Me? I've been looking outa my attic window for flaming torches for a while now.

Love 'em or hate 'em, I have to admit to two...

'Across Moltke Bridge' and 'St Edouards'.

Any questions, feel free...

Richie

[Nidan1]

This was my first shot at providing a scenario for an ROW tourney, and it was a big thrill for me. Especially to be in the company of veteran designers from past ROW events.

I designed Highlanders in Hell, feel free to ask anything you want, or make any comments...I have a thick hide and a good sense of humor.

Don't forget...this thread is only to discuss the first round scenarios. Round two is most definately in lock down.

[Kingfish]

I did 'Push to Maleme' although the map was designed by Franko. He also did 'Wet triangle'

My original scenario for ROW V was 'if at first', but since we already had a Normandy scenario with 'Highlanders in Hell' I substituted it with Push.

[Richie]

You're evil men I tell you! tongue.gif

[ June 24, 2005, 08:31 AM: Message edited by: Richie ]

[Melnibone]

Great job guys...all memorable fights...the artillery in Highlanders....the hedge in Maleme...the bridge & reinforcements in Moltke....the noises in the dark in Edouards...happy days!

[Bigduke6]

Richie,

Moeltke was the best Berlin scenario I have ever played bar none. Studly Red infantry backed up with gobs of firepower. In Berlin '45 sure, but in CMBB?

I shake your virtual hand.

*Shake*

I down a virtual glass of vodka in your honor.

*Glug*

I plant a big slobbery Soviet kiss...ah, you get the idea.

Read my AAR, you'll like the screenies.

[Kingfish]

Originally posted by Bigduke6:
Richie,

Moeltke was the best Berlin scenario I have ever played bar none. Ah, but Moltke is not the best Berlin scenario he has designed. In fact, Moltke is only the 'front door' so to speak, to his Battle for the Reichstag (http://bootsandtracks.com/ScenarioDetail.php?ScenarioID=89).

That one is a must play.

[walpurgis nacht]

My top pick in ROW IV 1st round was _South of Vevi_, likewise my top pick for 1st round ROW V is _Malame_. Hats off to Kingfish. When I see you in a few weeks at Jwxspoon's house, the wine is on me smile.gif

I've played many scenarios in my day and nothing touches the consistant quality you find in these ROW tourneys.

[Kingfish]

You brown noser!

That's an automatic 10 points added to your ROW score!

BTW, I'm not going to be able to make it to Jeff's house. Something about a subpoena.

[walpurgis nacht]

I just opened the first "Loaded for Bear" file, . . . I take it all back. tongue.gif

[Kingfish]

Sensory overload?

[Grimthane]

Richie, good job with those scenarios! They were my clear favourites, among a good bunch.

The reinforcements in Moltke were an excellent touch IMHO (perhaps warn in the briefing to look out for backup, for those with tunnel vision!).

I would have liked the setup area for Axis to extend to the riverbank, to allow hiding behind the smoke there.

St Eds was a nailbiter. Most educational, though I think night and no fog would have been hard enough!

[walpurgis nacht]

Originally posted by Kingfish:
Sensory overload? You have no idea what this looks like to someone who has an obsessive compulsive disorder.

tongue.gif

[Richie]

Thankyou Bigduke6, Grimthane.

I'm really glad you guys enjoyed Moltke. I thought it might polarise opinion when I offered it up but it's unique nature offers a different type of challenge for the players.
It's actually as historical as I could get it to be although accounts of the battle vary slightly. Much research and playtesting...
My reference material:
'With Our Backs To Berlin, The German Army In Retreat 1945' by Tony Le Tissier, pages 175 to 180.
'Berlin, The Downfall 1945' by Antony Beevor, pages 348 and 349.
Both excellent books and well worth the read.
Some internet sources too.

With regards to the Para reinforcement and the Soviet brifeing, I don't disagree that some warning could perhaps have been given to the Soviet player in hindsight (and I will include a vague reference to a possibility when I publish it), but with the constant reinforcements and the flag on the Soviet bank of the Spree I figured most players would click to the possibility. I didn't want to make it too obvious either. I like the surprise factor...
You guys are in the heart of Berlin afterall.
I am sorry if that caused people a great deal of anguish, it wasn't my intention.

Ah the horror...

[Richie]

Originally posted by Kingfish:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bigduke6:
Richie,

Moeltke was the best Berlin scenario I have ever played bar none. Ah, but Moltke is not the best Berlin scenario he has designed. In fact, Moltke is only the 'front door' so to speak, to his Battle for the Reichstag (http://bootsandtracks.com/ScenarioDetail.php?ScenarioID=89).

That one is a must play. </font>[/QUOTE]Thanks Kingfish! It's still a firm favourite of mine. Part of the Berlin Trilogy!

[GreenAsJade]

I agree with Grim on the pick of a great bunch being Moltke & Edouards. I'm also looking forward to reading Maleme AARs to find out what the heck I missed.

It doesn't suprise me that Walpurgis liked Maleme. As I mentioned in my AAR, I think that this was one where people with highly refined infantry assault skills could excel. Without those it was all a bit aimless for me smile.gif

I liked Moltke & Eduoards because they embodied for me what ROW seems to offer: really interesting unique scenarios. Neither could have been a QB in a blind fit.

Richie: DONT WARN THE RUSSIANS ABOUT THE GERMAN REINFORCEMENTS!! That suprise was fantastic!

(Some GERMANS have claimed they didn't see their own reinforcements. THAT should be corrected for sure. There's really no reason for a player to know about his own forces).

GaJ.

[ June 24, 2005, 08:17 PM: Message edited by: GreenAsJade ]

[Bigduke6]

Kingfish,

Got it. I think I will play Soviets...

Richie,

I second Green as Jade's advice. The arrival of the German reserves was an outstanding surprise, it really made the scenario. Keep it an absolute secret, IMO.

I really go into detail in this in my AAR, but the way you set up that battle was so true-to-life (from the Soviet side anyway) that I didn't need the briefing to tell me what reserves were coming. Red Army SOP said you need assault guns and sappers for city fighting, and lo an behold they showed right up.

A batch of German die-hards from an unexpected direction is par for the course. Very much in the spirit of the Goetedaemmergung Berlin for the Germans to put in a pointless, but very nasty little attack like that.

(And it was so, so, graditfying to litter the Washingtonsplatz with elite Facist corpses. :mad: )

[Kanonier Reichmann]

My personal favourite was between St Edouards & Highlanders in Hell mainly because they gave both sides a chance if you were on your game. Night fighting is always tricky but the ebb & flow of St Ed's was brilliant while I really liked the idea of an understrength and fairly green force defending against gobs of good German infantry & AFV's on the attack but with limited time to achieve their objectives. The decent arty spotter for the British made all the difference in that one.

I thought Moltke Bridge was probably fairly historical in the feel of the way it played but it still doesn't get around the fact that it can be very tedious trying to issue new orders every turn to numerous squads as the AI replots 10 zillion sneak moves for them every turn when stuck on the bridge. The re-inforcements for the Germans was a clever bit of design but I would have throught fairly green Volksturm may have been the order of the day rather than regular up to Crack Fallschirmjager which I thought were nowhere near Berlin by the end of the war.

Push to Maleme was an interesting joust but I'm personally not in favour of airpower in a ROW style battle as your chances of doing really well can revolve around the luck factor of getting a particularly good airstrike on vital enemy units. I could have really cleaned up if my Stuka had accurately aimed its 1,000lb(?) bomb on one of 3 tightly bunched Vickers tanks but he missed by more than 200 metres killing trees only whereas an accurate strike would have virtually guaranteed a premature ending to the fight through no good play on my part. I'm guessing that some outlier scores in that battle could have revolved around the Stuka being really effective which is not fair on other players IMO.

Wet Triangle I'm guessing will be most players least favourite because there was not the opportunity to apply much subtelty as the attacking Russians. The way I saw it from the German side, you either crashed through or crashed! Still, at the end of the day, we would not have any tournament at all if it weren't for the scenario designers so my hat is off to all of you for taking the time & trouble to come up with a design which, it goes without saying, any one of them would far exceed any pathetic attempt I could ever cobble together.

Regards

Jim R.

[Bigduke6]

Argh! B&T won't let me download the file! Help! :confused:

[Richie]

Here she is at the Scenario Depot, Battle For The Reichstag (http://www.dragonlair.net/combatmission/review03.php?UniqueID=703&Name=Battle+For+the+Reichstag&g=4)

Don't forget to install the MODs, but save the appropriate files first! You'll notice my other scenarios aren't with it, I lost the password to that username when my PC was wormed early last year...

Feel free to review if your inclined ;)

[ June 25, 2005, 02:02 AM: Message edited by: Richie ]

[Richie]

Thanks GreenAsJade & Kanonier Reichmann!

I'd limit any 'warning' for the Soviet player to a vague reference about 'Germans being everwhere in the heart of Berlin and keeping an eye out'... or something similar.
Oddly enough it was extensively playtested and I don't believe the issue was raised before but I do see peoples point.

Generally the Soviet player is so engrossed with the horror on the bridge they don't pay too much attention anyway... (It's probably all those sneak commands, I always group selected the lot and hit 'halt'... any pinned dudes I set for covering fire, the rest for advance. I wonder what Walpurgis did..?)

The Paras are from the 9th Parachute Division under Colonel Harry Herrmann. They were caught up in the goods yard and the Russians bypassed them. According to what I read they created such a disturbance they made it across the bridge!
Their arrival is detailed in the German briefing, I'm surprised any German player might miss their arrival, it's fairly clear. I will check that out though...

[Richie]

Originally posted by Kanonier Reichmann:
Night fighting is always tricky but the ebb & flow of St Ed's was brilliant...

Regards

Jim R. Thanks man! Rarely portayed in many single CM scenarios is 'Attack and Counterattack'.
The Germans, from what I've read, made a habit of it. Immediately regain the initiative!

Once again an historical take on a battle. Reference material including, 'The Devils Adjutant, Jochen Peiper Panzer Leader' by Michael Reynolds and some information extracted from ASL's Kampgruppe Peiper's specific scenario briefings.

One quote springs to mind... "The Germans however were not content with the American occupation of this natural fortress. Around midnight, about a hundred shouting SS troops suddenly burst out of the darkness and charged toward the building."

Inspiration in a paragraph!

[Melnibone]

I really liked St Eds as the Axis - however, if the Allied player is cautious at the start then by the time he assaults the Axis reinforcements are already in place - that's how our game panned out - not so much an Axis counter as a full on defence. Cool scenario though.

[SteveS]

Timing is everything in St Eds. I was the Allied attacker and took the last of the sanatorium buildings one turn before the counter attack appeared. I caught almost all of my opponents forces out in the open to his misfortune. The allied briefing gave the impression that the defending force would be much stronger than it actually was so I did move forward with some caution. Luckily for me I was just fast enough.

I was on the wrong end of the Stuka in Maleme. It probably caused a 600+ pt swing in that game as it pretty much destroyed a force that had a good chance of taking the rear 300pt flag. But I have no problems with it being included. If I had thought about it more I could have positioned my forces to be less susceptible to such an event. Perhaps the Allied briefing should have been more explicit about the potential for air attack, although it was hinted at. My only problem with Maleme was that it was perhaps a couple of turns too short given the number of objectives and the "tired" state of the Allied infantry.

Individually they were all good scenarios, but as a group they provided a great variety of challenges.

[BigDog944]

My favourite was "Highlanders in Hell". As the Allies, I really felt under the gun to perform well, and the scenario rewarded me in points and feelings of accomplishment when I finally managed to take down one of the Panthers! The only thing I didn't think was too great was the flag placements. The overall objectives didn't seem to make sense in a context greater than just that virtual battlefield.

My least favourite was playing the Axis in Maleme. The problem there was that the entire result seemed to rest on two factors. The first being the placement of the lone gun available to the Axis, the second being the Stuka actually showing up and hitting something. Because I placed the gun in a poor position to actually cover the advance that Walpurgis Nacht chose, I was left with no answer to his Vickers tanks. They ruled the battlefield! Also, the Stuka didn't even show up for me. My side auto-surrendered on the second to last turn, and it was only during my last turn that I heard the plane engine noises approaching. Had it shown up a turn or two earlier, it may have kept me from auto-surrendering, and then there wouldn't have been an anomalous outlier to spur on all this "Fix Nabla" talk!

Anyway, all the scenarios were a lot of fun, and I learned something from each of them. I'm amased with the effort and research that goes into making a scenario, and by playing them, a lot of that research and knowledge rubs off on me. Thank you all designers!

[Nidan1]

Some historical insight and design considerations for "Highlanders in Hell".

When I was approached by Richie and Kingfish to see if I wanted to contribute an original scenario for the new ROW tournament, I was in the process of designing a series of battles related to the Commonwealth area of action in Normandy, from June to July, 1944.

"Highlanders" was already on the drawing boards, and it was to be an historical representation of the battle between C Company of the 3rd Monmouthshires, along with tanks of 3 County of London Yoemanry, against the SS Panzergrenadiers of the Leibstandarte Adolph Hitler, in the form of Kampfgruppe Frey at Mouen.
This was a German counter attack against the so called Scottish Corridor, which was holding open the British bridgehead over the Odon river at Tourmauville.

When I designed the scenario, I tried to give the British player a feeling of isolation, while the German player should have had the feeling of rushing into the unknown.

In the real battle Company C was overrun, but Kampfgruppe Frey was eventually stopped short of closing the corridor.

In play testing, the German player seemd to have a clear advantage, but well placed TRPs could wreak havoc on his forces, and thus give the Brit player points for taking out high value targets. To really score well the German player needed to take all the flags, and lose as few units as possible in the process. The Allied side needed to inflict losses on the German side, and hang on as long as possible.

The results of the tourney surprised me, because I did not think I had designed it as balanced as it turned out. In playtesting the best the allies got was a draw in one battle.

I am glad folks enjoyed it....I enjoyed putting it together for the tournament.

To BigDog944 I envisioned the flag placement in order to force the German player to spread his spearhead in order to capture an entire area, not just the road junction. Closing the corridor to the Odon bridgehead was the goal of the German attack, I wanted to convey the idea of penetrating into the Aliied lines on a wide front, which was my motive in the flag placement.
Thanks for your comments and feedback.

[ June 25, 2005, 04:17 PM: Message edited by: Nidan1 ]

[BigDog944]

Thanks for the reply, Nidan. It all makes sense now!

[Kanonier Reichmann]

Originally posted by Richie:
The Paras are from the 9th Parachute Division under Colonel Harry Herrmann. They were caught up in the goods yard and the Russians bypassed them. According to what I read they created such a disturbance they made it across the bridge!
Their arrival is detailed in the German briefing, I'm surprised any German player might miss their arrival, it's fairly clear. I will check that out though... O.K., I stand corrected then. I honestly thought that any remnants of Fallschirmjager units were miles away from Berlin by that stage of the war. Thanks for the info. and it just goes to show how much trouble you scenario designers go to to get it right.

smile.gif

Regards

Jim R.

[Flenser]

I stand corrected as well. I didn't think such an important bridgehead would let such a sizeable German force to get that close, especially on the Russian side of the river... but such are the vagaries of urban combat.

Feel free to disregard the last few paragraphs of my AAR when it is posted. Yep, nothing to see there... move along... move along.

[WineCape]

Originally posted by Walpurgis Nacht:
My top pick in ROW IV 1st round was _South of Vevi_, likewise my top pick for 1st round ROW V is _Malame_. Hats off to Kingfish. When I see you in a few weeks at Jwxspoon's house, the wine is on me smile.gif

I've played many scenarios in my day and nothing touches the consistant quality you find in these ROW tourneys. WN, now please don't do the honourable thing again and give 'em wine goodies to Jeff. Jeff will receive enough this time round (single Malts) to keep you all busy in Surfside Beach come 7 July @ the CMvention.

Many thanks and gratitude to the scenario designers. Kingfish, for the time being I air couriered that specific 18-year old Glenfiddich Single Malt, earmarked for you, to Rune/Tim Orosz in Chicago for favours done past. But my exact same offer still stands for your hard work in past and future RoW's. Will get the goods to you somehow, eventually, even if it means that you have to lodge in a different state.

PS: Awaiting a RoW V email report, obviously when your time allows: Section/Group Winners, their e-mail details, top/interesting AAR's, result tables, etc.

Sincerely,
Charl Theron
http://wine.capetourism.org/wine/images/logo.gif

-----------------------------------------------------
Co-creator & Sponsor of the following CM tournaments:
</font> Rumblings of War (RoW I, II, III, IV, V) (http://bootsandtracks.com/ROW.php)</font> The infamous CMBO Invitational (http://www.battlefront.com/cgi-bin/bbs/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=16;t=019427)</font> WineCape Tourney I (http://www.battlefront.com/cgi-bin/bbs/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=16;t=019311) and II (http://www.battlefront.com/cgi-bin/bbs/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=16;t=019362)</font>

[Richie]

Having read through people's AAR's for Moltke...

and I'd like to thank all those who took the time because the standard of reviews is excellent, plus for a designer, this stuff is gold I tell ya! (the few words put forward by Grog Dorosh helps too)...

I'd like to address a couple of other points mentioned. You fella's have taken the time so I'll take the time to respond...

One reviewer asked about the 'fords' on Konigsplatz. These are due to a collapsed U-bahn tunnel that was under construction and then flooded after it collapsed. In places infantry and armour were able to wade across. It was also an obstacle for the Soviet troops storming the Reichstag. (Just so you know, Battle For The Reichstag was designed first. I decided to design a prequel at a later stage. Because both scenarios utilize areas of the same map, I was utterly determined that I would maintain the integrity of the map between the two scenarios, although some damage on the Reichstag map is evident due to the prior battle for Moltke Bridge, which does not appear on the Moltke map.)

One reviewer mentioned the possibility of assualt boats being used by the Soviets. Indeed in other areas the Russian troops eventually made it across the Spree by other means. The Soviets at this point were determined to storm the bridge. It was more or less intact although sagging from the demolition attempt. The Spree at this point also had steeper sides than I was able to depict using the current CM engine whilst maintaining asthetics and playability. That alone may have deterred any attempt by troops to cross via those means.

One reviewer mentioned the lack of names on the map. I don't like to overcroud the play area of the map too much. The street referred to as Himmler Street (immediately west of the Interior Ministry, or Himmlers House) by one specific reviewer is 'Herwath Street (strasse)'. The area just off the bridge I believe was referred to as Moltke Platz.

One reviewer mentioned the sewer movement for the Germans. The Germans spent a lot of time in the cellars, they used Panzerfausts to create doorways between cellars and in rooms. They also used the U-bahn tunnels to move about extensively. I would not deny the German player the opportunity based on those facts, although having used sewer movement myself I doubt it would have any major effect on play considering the time it takes to orchestrate an effective sewer move.

One reviewer pointed out that Captain Neustroev was indeed a Captain and not a Major. CM assigns a rank when you insert a name regardless... If I'd typed in Captain, he would have been Major Captain Neustroev for the Soviet battalion commander...

I hope this helps.

Richie

[ July 01, 2005, 10:55 PM: Message edited by: Richie ]

[Nidan1]

Up front, I would like to say "Thanks" to all those who took the time to write an AAR for the scenarios in this tournament.

Now to address some of the comments made specifically about "Highlanders in Hell", and to try and give you some idea as to why something was done in a particular way, or just to say "Thanks for pointing out that error, I'll be more careful next time"

There were comments about the lack of landmarks on the map;

I purposely did not include landmarks, number one because a ficticious village name, etc. was mentioned in the briefing, and number two, I thought it was a better effect for Tournament FOW. Just a personal choice, really, landmarks could easily be added. It is a semi-historical scenario, and the ground does in fact represent actual places in France.

Comments about terrain types used;

There are no "Bocage or Hedgrow" terrain tiles in CMAK that gives the same movement effects that are present in CMBO. I used CMAK "hedge" tiles in some places, but that was merely for aesthetics, where I wanted to purposely restrict movement, as the woods tiles along side the roads, I used different terrain tiles. At first glance they might seem out of place to some, but from a design standpoint coupled with an honest attempt to make the map as realistic as possible, one has to make some choices in design.
I had a lot of historical photographs of the Mouen area (which was where this took place), and the road leading into the village, (Caen-Villers-bocage road) was narrow, and bordered by hedges, and earthen mounds, very poor tank routes to be sure. When I was building the map, I used those pictures for reference, and then I "took a drive" up that road on the map, to see if it gave the proper claustrophobic effect...I think I achieved that.

Comments on providing location of arriving reinforcements;

Normally, I would specify a general area or terrain feature, which would give an indication of the arrival area of reinforcements. Again, in the actual battle Albert Frey's "Leibstandarte" Kampfgruppe, was arriving piecemeal in to the "Hitlerjungend's" area. At this time the British had just crossed the Odon, and things were moving quickly. Frey was ordered by Kurt Meyer to advance on Mouen and Tourville ASAP and with all speed. That was part of my thinking.

Units routing into the open:

Oops, this was a screwup by me, and a lack of attention to detail for which I apologize for. Setting friendly map edges is an important design consideration...I will be infinitely more careful the next time, and I will fix the problem on any future general release of "Highlanders in Hell".

Size of map:

The original intention of the design was to be for a battle of larger scope and map size. I did in fact make the map smaller to fit into the design requirements for a ROW V first round battle. It probably could have been a little smaller, but play testing with an agressive Axis player brought contact within 5-7 turns, which I thought was OK. The turns were also cut down, playtesting on the smaller map with 30+ turns usually brought a higher incidence of German victories. I designed it to be unbalanced in favor of the German side, and I am a bit surprised at the closeness of the scores. I did not take into account superior players on the Allied side, or the penalty the German side gets for losing key units. All in all these unexpected results made for a better game than even I thought it would be. Of course some of you disagree, but that is what feed back is about.

[ July 01, 2005, 02:30 PM: Message edited by: Nidan1 ]

[Dawg Bonz]

Happy 4th of July! Gentlemen you created some fine looking and interesting scenarios for the tournament participants. Thank you to the scenario designers of ROW V.

Reviewed some of the AARs you posted and realized I am obliged to hire an editor. I think I got side tracked with the 500,000 words minimum notice…. Kinda like the ‘don’t blow up the bridge’ notice in that Evil Bridge scenario. Hmm. Richie… Nice touch with the PENG trailer park down by the river Spree! Don’t tell me you forgot? Ironic that I accomplished my best scores in St. Ends, nighttime ECT in your French medical facility and my worst score in EVIL … while pulling a rabbit out of my neophyte donkey. These are both your scenarios Richie…. “The Scenario Designer grivets and take-it-h away”… or sumpin. Nidan1’s 'Highlanders in Hell' was a very pleasurable armored Axis adventure (BIG GUNS ARE FUN) against the elements and ‘beau-cops blockage’… Got a “D” in French you know. Kingfish, I would agree WN that 'Push to Maleme' my best honors pick for 1st round ROW V. I know it doesn’t have all the bang and boom glitz of some other fine scenarios but the game looked and felt right for realism. Is that subjective enough for you? I have never parachuted but I did read up on and ‘researched’ the ‘parachute packets’ the axis used. Good stuff! Franko’s 'Wet Triangle' was my least favored game. Nice looking map but too ‘what if’ for me… wait for the roll of the dice & watch the hordes of tractors zip across the line for VPs, IOW a bit unrealistic. Don’t get me wrong, Wet is a fine playing and looking scenario but a subjective call is that … and that is what happens when your scenarios are stacked up in ROW competition. I would still play it again as Allied to see how fast (shortest number of turns) I could get across the line for VP.

I will complete my real AARs as time allows and send them to you.

I am sure the fellows in the ROW V finals experience are in high spirits with your ultimate offerings.

Thanks again,
Dawg off… and off to nap… hoping the phone doesn’t ring any more as there is a new job on offer in DC.

[GreenAsJade]

Dawg, you were lucky last time. Next time you wouldn't be getting _any_ tanks across the line ...


tongue.gif tongue.gif tongue.gif tongue.gif

[GreenAsJade]

Hey - Flenser, you said (in StE) "I didn't expect bogging to be a risk".

How can that be? It was _mud_ !!! :eek: :eek: :eek:

I'm cautious about taking tanks off the road in damp! They always seem to bog. I couldn't believe it when my own StE opponent's Sherms merrily waltzed up to the defenders through the mud without a single bog!

GaJ.

[Flenser]

Yeah yeah. My reasoning (flawed, to be sure) was:
1) Its CMAK, and stuff doesn't bog as readily as in CMBB
2) If you stick to "move", "hunt", etc you can minimize the chances even further. Or so it seems. I'm sure someone has or will run numerous tests to prove that wrong.

The plan was that going x-country with the Shermans instead of attacking along the road would be an unpleasant suprise for my opponent.

I can't remember the last time I'd actually played a game with muddy conditions, so I probably should have run some tests. Had I done so I would have seen that mud makes for....

very.....

slow.....

going.

Orders of magnitude slower than damp or wet.

Only had a few bogs, but watching turtles and snails zip by got old after awhile.

So it did end up being a surprise, just for the wrong person.

:mad:

[walpurgis nacht]

Originally posted by Flenser:
2) If you stick to "move", "hunt", etc you can minimize the chances even further. Or so it seems. I'm sure someone has or will run numerous tests to prove that wrong. Yep, you're wrong. tongue.gif "Fast" move is no more risky than "move" or "hunt", and since it's faster well . . . . certainly the way to go.

[GreenAsJade]

:eek: :eek: Is that really really right?

I swear it seems like I bog more going fast!

[Flenser]

I'd swear as well, but there seems to be some rather definitive studies that prove us both wrong. Do a search and you'll come up all sorts of stuff.