historical question

[coe]

What makes an airlanding division an airlanding division as opposed to a regular division or parachute division (role, equipment)?

and a curiosity question - I wonder what it would take to make a true armored parachute division (i.e. an armored division parachuting from the sky.

Conan

[Kingfish]

The airlanding battalions, or brigades, of a British Para division would be deployed to the battle in Gliders, and as such would normally carry most of the division's heavy weapons.

Not sure about divisional-sized formations. AFAIK, the allies never used one in combat. The Germans did deploy 2 during the war, the 22nd and 91st Luftlande divisions, of which the latter saw extensive combat around the Contentin peninsula during the Normandy campaign.

Edit: it turns out the allies did use an airlanding division in combat, but not in its intended role. The 52nd (lowland) infantry division was redesignated as an airlanding division for Market-Garden, but was never used as such.

[ June 14, 2006, 10:17 AM: Message edited by: Kingfish ]

[John D Salt]

Originally posted by coe:
What makes an airlanding division an airlanding division as opposed to a regular division or parachute division (role, equipment)?
"Airlanding" means they land, by trasport aircraft or glider, "parachute" means they parachute. Although I've only ever heard of German airlanding divs (IIRC 52nd Lowland was trained for the role but never did it, otherwise airlanding formations were brigades), and in the German case the difference was usually that one operated like conventional infantry, and so did the other.

Originally posted by coe:

and a curiosity question - I wonder what it would take to make a true armored parachute division (i.e. an armored division parachuting from the sky.
Very light tanks, very big parachutes, or extremely thick air.

All the best,

John.

[tar]

Airlanding units vs. paratrooopers. The airlanding units were not jump-trained and as noted above were expected to land either on transport aircraft stopping at airfields or on gliders.

Airlanding vs. normal infantry. They were "lighter" units, particularly as regards to the heavier weapons. I would expect to see more pack howitzers and other smaller caliber artillery. Unlike late war infantry units that often had organic armor support, airlanding units would not be able to have such luxuries.

Of course, since at least for the Axis, many of the parachute, etc. units ended up being employed as regular infantry rather than in an air assault role, the actual support weapons would have gotten heavier since air transport was no longer a concern.

[dieseltaylor]

Tetrarch - Wiki will tell you all about them : )

Airborne Armoured Reconnaissance Regiment, 6th Airborne Division- landed by Hamilcar glider as part of Operation Overlord on June 6, 1944 on the River Orne

[Kingfish]

The Tetrach wasn't the only armored vehicle the Brit 6th AB used in combat. During Op Varsity in '45 a small number of M22 Locust light tanks (http://www.wwiivehicles.com/usa/tanks_light/m22_locust.html) were deployed via Hamilcar gliders.

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by John D Salt:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by coe:
What makes an airlanding division an airlanding division as opposed to a regular division or parachute division (role, equipment)?
"Airlanding" means they land, by trasport aircraft or glider, "parachute" means they parachute. Although I've only ever heard of German airlanding divs (IIRC 52nd Lowland was trained for the role but never did it, otherwise airlanding formations were brigades), and in the German case the difference was usually that one operated like conventional infantry, and so did the other.

Originally posted by coe:

and a curiosity question - I wonder what it would take to make a true armored parachute division (i.e. an armored division parachuting from the sky.
Very light tanks, very big parachutes, or extremely thick air.

All the best,

John. </font>[/QUOTE]The 52nd (Lowland) Division, made up of Lowland Scots, ironically trained for employment as a Mountain division - then went into combat by boat in the lowest part of Europe, the Low Countries, specifically South Beveland and Walcheren Island. It's a mad world.

[Dandelion]

Hey there

I'll give it a whirl, with a specifically German perspective. As has been mentioned, the short answer to the issue of difference between paras and airlanding infantry is weight and mode of deployment.

Operational context
In German airborne operations the seizing of an airhead was pivotal (as in any nation) and to them, airheads meant airfields. They did not develop any skills in the improvised building of airfields, nor indeed did they become very skilled at paradropping supplies. Focus was on airfields and in the territories of the foreseen enemies, there were plenty of airfields to steal anyway. The ultralight paras were capable of seizing these airfields but not, it was argued, to hold them against regular enemy forces for any meaningful period of time. Enter the airlanding infantry. Being airmobile and using transport planes, they could carry along the heavy equipment of the infantry division.

The role of airlanding infantry - the LL
Airlanding infantry was light infantry trained to rapidly deploy from transport planes, and in some cases but not normally from gliders too. Their training focused on securing perimeters, specifically airfield perimeters, and doing so under extreme conditions (darkness, hostile fire, deploying at great speed in spite of total confusion etc). Thus, airlanding infantry needed an airstrip to deploy, unlike the paras who could drop just about wherever they wanted (well...). Apart from that training, they were ordinary light infantry.

LL Sturm Rgt
An exception here was the Luftlande Sturm Regiment, which was a paratroop formation organised and equipped for glider insertion. It took part in all major German airborne operations. In spite of the unit designation it was not an airlanding unit (in the German sense of the word), it was a gliderborne air assault unit. Like the paras and unlike airlanding infantry, it belonged to the airforce.

LL organisation and equipment
Airlanding divisions (22nd, 91st) were organised and equipped very similar to other light infantry, such as the Gebirgsjäger and Jäger. All artillery formations used mountain organisation and equipment. Similarly, regimental assets (regimental companies) were permanently distributed to company level, and the divisions used two regiments of three battallions (instead of three rgts with 3 bns, as was initially the infantry norm). The battallions, however, had five companies instead of the normal four, and these were all identical and equal strength companies (thus not the three rifle plus support company pattern of regular infantry). The airlanding divisions were thus organised (and indeed trained) for sustained fighting in smaller formations.

22 I.D. LL
The 22nd was designated Airlanding division but initially had only parts of it trained and equipped for the role. The rest was regular infantry (not light infantry), e.g. the division had three regiments and not two. The airlanding elements participated in the airborne operations of 1940. Mainly by landing in transport planes on Dutch airfields. The division, howerer, never took to the skies again, as they were tied down guarding oilfields during the operations in the Balkans in 41. The elements trained and equipped for the airlanding role were assembled in a battlegroup (KG Buhse) and sent to Africa, where it was destroyed in 1943. The rest of 22nd went East and laboured on, and retained the name Luftlande until it too was destroyed in 1945.

91 I.D. LL
On the contrary, the 91st was a fully equipped, trained and organised airlanding division from her creation in january 1944. About a third of the personnel were veteran paratroopers. Rather than air assault, she was intended for the strategic reserve role as a rapid intervention force. The division never participated in anything airborne however, she didn't even have to airlift to any threatened front. The threat came to her instead, and she was destroyed in august 1944.

Apart from these, mountain troops were used in the very same role on more than one occasion.

As for airborne armour, the soviets came a few steps along that path I think, much later.

Cheerio
Dandelion

[Andreas]

Dandelion

Can you get Mattias to drop me an email? His old email and mobile phone seems to be no more.

Thanks a lot in advance!

Cheers

Andreas

[Dandelion]

Hi there Andreas

Unfortunately, he has ceased answering any attempts of mine to contact him as well.

This happens regularly. He disapperars.

He's usually back in a year or two.

I've gotten more or less used to it.

All the best
Dandelion

[Andreas]

Ah well, I'll just wait for that to happen then. Or maybe next time someone calls my mobile and starts talking Swedish, I answer, instead of looking bemused and hanging up.

Thanks a lot for taking the time to respond.

Cheers

Andreas

[painfbat]

==================================
LL organisation and equipment
Airlanding divisions (22nd, 91st) were organised and equipped very similar to other light infantry, such as the Gebirgsjäger and Jäger. All artillery formations used mountain organisation and equipment. Similarly, regimental assets (regimental companies) were permanently distributed to company level, and the divisions used two regiments of three battallions (instead of three rgts with 3 bns, as was initially the infantry norm). The battallions, however, had five companies instead of the normal four, and these were all identical and equal strength companies (thus not the three rifle plus support company pattern of regular infantry). The airlanding divisions were thus organised (and indeed trained) for sustained fighting in smaller formations.

22 I.D. LL
The 22nd was designated Airlanding division but initially had only parts of it trained and equipped for the role. The rest was regular infantry (not light infantry), e.g. the division had three regiments and not two. The airlanding elements participated in the airborne operations of 1940. Mainly by landing in transport planes on Dutch airfields. The division, howerer, never took to the skies again, as they were tied down guarding oilfields during the operations in the Balkans in 41. The elements trained and equipped for the airlanding role were assembled in a battlegroup (KG Buhse) and sent to Africa, where it was destroyed in 1943. The rest of 22nd went East and laboured on, and retained the name Luftlande until it too was destroyed in 1945.
================================================

I could be wrong but books like "Die Geschichte der 22.Infanterie-Division" and "Flak-Bat.22 Seine Geschichte" tell me something different.

As do these sources:

http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Gliederungen/Infanterieregimenter/IR16.htm

http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Gliederungen/Infanterieregimenter/IR47.htm


http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Gliederungen/Infanterieregimenter/IR65.htm

http://www.balsi.de/Weltkrieg/Einheiten/Infanteriedivisionen/22-ID.htm

http://www.historic.de/

Cheers,

[Dandelion]

Er... Might you please disclose how any of the links you provide conflict with anything I wrote?

First link tells us of Rgt 16, and how parts of it was trained and used for airlanding duties. Right.

Second link tells us that the companies of 47nd regiment were equal in strength and organisation. Ok.

Third link tells us the 65th was partially trained and equipped for airlanding tasks (III Batl to be more specific than this source). Mhm.

Fourth link is a link telling us not much of anything at all.

Fifth link leads to a frontal page of a... what? Pictoral history of the Bremen guys and some guys of the Oldenburg Regiment. That's some nice googling there. Great pics.

And I wrote what above? That the regiments were not partially trained and equipped for airlanding duties? That the companies were not equal in strength and organisation?

You mentioned the German name of the divisional history of the 22nd infantry. Presumably evoking you own it, as I do. I am interested to read of the ways I contradicted it above. Since you own it, might you be so kind as to extend the courtesy of explaining the ways in which I erred these Hanseatic Germans in my misguided comment? And while you are at it - I do not own any volume on the 22nd artillery, didn't even know there was one, but seeing as you seem to do - would it be too much to ask that you elucidate the manners in which I erred them as wll in my comment above?

Or is this just another case of mistaking the artillery of 1 Fallschirm-Jäger-Division with I. Fallschirm Korps?

Yours Sincerely
Dandelion

[JonS]

Originally posted by Dandelion:
LL organisation and equipment
Airlanding divisions (22nd, 91st) were organised and equipped very similar to other light infantry, such as the Gebirgsjäger and Jäger. All artillery formations used mountain organisation and equipment. Similarly, regimental assets (regimental companies) were permanently distributed to company level, and the divisions used two regiments of three battallions (instead of three rgts with 3 bns, as was initially the infantry norm). The battallions, however, had five companies instead of the normal four, and these were all identical and equal strength companies (thus not the three rifle plus support company pattern of regular infantry). The airlanding divisions were thus organised (and indeed trained) for sustained fighting in smaller formations.Is anyone able to confirm the bit in bold? Zetterling (http://web.telia.com/~u18313395/normandy/gerob/gerob.html) gives the org of 91LLID bns as a typical four coys, not five as Dandelion indicates above.

Also, assuming that it is five coys per bn, does anyone know the strength and org of those companies?

Finally, web-based sources show two div insignia for this Div.

Feldgrau (http://www.feldgrau.com/InfDiv.php?ID=80) has a bow and arrow superimposed over a red and black shield, while Axis History (http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=1272) has an arm weilding a sword within a shield. Which of these is correct for June 1944 please?

Thanks
Jon

[ October 09, 2006, 03:39 PM: Message edited by: JonS ]

[Dandelion]

Jon, that was a sweeping summary of the airlanding arm in general, matching the level of interest displayed by the questioner. It wasn't intended for detail study. You know, I was speaking (writing, as it was) generally, as a rule. As the 22nd fought six years of war and pioneered the airlanding operations, they tend to be the rule. 91st existed a few months and so her divergence in structure out of practical necessity, while interesting of course, will not usually warrant comment in a sweeping summary.

Had on the other hand the questioner wanted a detailed study, one might have made an effort to deliver one. But he was just generally curious, as you can see above. I could have written more extensively on the topic but I assumed I would have lost him by page 2. He just wanted to know the characteristics of these arms.

Specifically the three battallions of 1057th and 1058th respectively had four understrength companies each, plus regimental companies. The regimental companies were semi-permanently distributed. This according to Tessin.

As for the Luftlande companies I know how they were supposed to be organised. That's not saying they always were. They manifestly weren't as they changed organisation even officially at two times, not mentioning field realities et cetera. One would need the divisional history of the 91st to know how closely exactly they followed authorised organisation, and I don't have access to it. But you know, generally speaking, as a rule (literally):

Companies were divided into a Fliegende Staffel and a Erdstaffel (flying- and Ground units).

Fliegende Staffel (called "I" in military jargon) had a

Coy Hq
Company commander

Coy Hq section
Coy Hq section leader
Communications NCO
4 Runners

Recon section
Section leader
5 privates (recon)

Antitank section
Section leader
4 privates (initially, eventually 11 men, reflecting the increasing need to crew ever heavier weapons)

(here later also a machinegun section of two guns)

Platoons 1 -3

Platoon commander

Platoon hq section
Section leader
4 runners

4 squads (per platoon)
Squadleader
7 privates, except 4th squad which had only 6.
Incidentally, issue was one machinegun per squad.

mortar section
Section leader
2 privates (initially, eventually 8 men)

There was also a number of men included in the flying part of the company but not in any specific subsection, namely
Equipment NCO
Medical NCO
4 stretcher bearers
a weapon mechanic/specialist.

All in all the flying (bayonet) part of the company had 4 officers, 24 NCOs, 140 privates.

In addition was the ground element (called "II" in military jargon).As the name suggests it was not meant to take part in air assaults.

It consisted of

Combat support
Commanding NCO (the Spiess)
A company clerk
Two cooks
Two horse-tenders
9 privates primarily acting drivers of horse-carts or trucks.

Supply section
Section commander
1 private

Pack column
Column commander
3 privates (of which one a tailor and one a shoemaker)

Special Equipment section
2 privates, driving the tuck of the section.

All in all then, the LL company counted 4 officers, 26 NCOs and 162 men.

This to be found in the K.St.N./KAN 131c.

After 1941 there was also a machinegun section of two guns. This was distributed from the initial machinegun companies. The machinegun companies were scrapped following the Crete experience (in which the airlanding units did not take part - depending how you look upon the Sturm Regiment - but from which could be drawn valuable experiences of air assault nonetheless). While they existed they used the K.St.N/KAN 151c.

Regimental companies were, after 1941, supposed to be distributed to battallion command. Regiments were supposed to be 15 company regiments (instead of 14) all units belonging to battallion organisation. Rgt HQ was thin, Bat HQ was fat, in the LL org. Exist the regimental companies did in various periods nonetheless however. Either on paper (while in fact distributed), or for real.

For the in-depth study of these units I sincerely recommend "Die Deutsche Fallschirmtruppe 1939-1941" by Karl-Heinz Golla and "Die Deutsche Fallschirmtruppe 1942-1945" by Hans-Martin Stimpel. In spite of the titles, the airlanding arm is covered in painful detail.

All the best
Dandelion

[JonS]

Many thanks D. Very helpful as always smile.gif

[Black Jack Pershing II]

Very light tanks, very big parachutes, or extremely thick air. Very springy ground and/or giant trampolines might also work.

You also neglect the German's pioneering work in hover-tanks which used superconductors and cold fusion to travel in the air. How do you think they got to Mars? Rockets? Nah -- the lift capacity was too small.

[Kingfish]

Why not just disassemble the tanks and drop them in 16,249 individual cannisters?

[Sergei]

Or just capture enemy tank factories with paratroops, then start producing heavy tanks?

[Dandelion]

Originally posted by Kingfish:
Why not just disassemble the tanks and drop them in 16,249 individual cannisters? Actually they did that at Dien Bien Phu, using Chaffees. Worked marvellously, all 10 were assembled in time to be destroyed in the battle.

Although I am not to sure about the number of cannisters of course...

Cheers
D

[dog of war]

are the luftwaffe infantry in this game a air landing unit or what are they

[Andreas]

They are Felddivisionen (L) type chaps if they are after 11/43. Before that, they are from Luftwaffe-Felddivisionen.

If you think it does not make a difference, you are wrong.

All the best

Andreas

[Dandelion]

Originally posted by dog of war:
are the luftwaffe infantry in this game a air landing unit or what are they They are not airlanding units. Below my text from cmakdb psted in:


With the catastrophic casualties suffered in the East, the German army had already spent the part of the army Reserve (men aged 20 to 35) considered first line (i.e. the youngest eight classes) by the winter of 1942. Their eyes turned to the Luftwaffe. The latter had only received a small section of the classes 1921 to 1924, but as these were unspent there were around 200 000 young, fit and motivated men in the Luftwaffe Reserve. Roughly 100 000 of these had already undergone Grundausbildung (regardless of service, basic infantry training had to be passed) and the army demanded the transfer of these immediately.

Hermann Göring, chief of the Luftwaffe and minister of the government, feared the reduction of armed force under his immediate control. His position in the government and party would be reduced accordingly. Thus, he countered the army demand with a promise to raise 20 ground troop divisions, using the entire Reserve of 200 000 men, if these divisions would be kept under Luftwaffe control. Confronted with this or nothing, the army reluctantly agreed. Thus were created the Luftwaffe-Feld-Divisionen.

The men were all taken from the Luftwaffe, as a rule the army did not even train them. As a rule, the divisions raised contained no men with infantry combat experience, not even officers or staff. Generally, instructors lacking the same experiences trained the men. While excellent quality recruits, the result was still the lowest quality trained regular combat formations ever entering German service in the war, with officers incapable of reading maps and signallers unfamiliar with army radios, and so on. Sounded grand enough, with units carrying the title Luftwaffe-Jäger-Regiment and several formations using titles such as Ski-Bataillone so and so.

The divisions were generally well equipped(this could vary though). The army was forced to supply the equipment necessary for 20 divisions. In addition, the Luftwaffe had liberal supplies of their own. Given that the divisions were very small, this usually meant levels of equipment quite a way away from that of ordinary army infantry divisions. Precious vehicles were issued in a scale ensuring almost complete motorisation of many of these formations.

Göring did not keep his promise and did not use the entire Reserve. The first eight divisions (1-8) were actually brigades, with four infantry battalions each plus support units. The following 13 divisions (9-21) were stronger, but still only two regiments of three battalions each (normal infantry divisions would have three such regiments at that point in the war).

All were sent to the East.

Some dissolved upon contact with the enemy, such as divisions 7 and 8, simply disappearing and never heard from again. Several were totally destroyed in their first combat, with drastic casualty rates and rapid loss of all heavy equipment (i.e. "bugging out"). The divisions generally failed every tactical objective issued to them and suffered abnormal casualty rates in every action.

By November 1943 the army had had enough and forcibly transferred all remaining units (to the army). All were withdrawn from the front for retraining and reorganisation, usually used as occupation troops in quiet corners of Europe. Army instructors preformed six months of retraining and the divisions were beefed with experienced army leaders, NCOs as well as officers. In the end, the army was able to create 14 fully-fledged infantry divisions (most of them using the Division n.A. organisation) from these remnants. They now carried the name Feld-Divisionen (L) and had switched to army colours and insignia (but not uniforms if they could help it, since those supplied by the Luftwaffe were of superior quality). Most were sent to the front again, performing on quite another level.

Only two served in the Mediterranean, the 19th and 20th. These were both slightly odd, as units serving in the Med had a tendency to be.

The 19th was stationed in a quiet part of the Netherlands after the transfer to the army. It was a Bodenstndig (static) division at that point. By the summer of 1944 it was sent to Italy, where it transformed to Division n.A. organisation (receiving the title Sturm when completed) and entered combat in June. In July, the division was almost completely destroyed. Having displayed fine qualities however, the remaining men were sent to Denmark, to form a regular army division there (19.Gren.Div.). Some of the men were also transferred to the 20th as noted below.

The 20th was withdrawn to Denmark for retraining and during the transformation process it was classified as a bicycleborne division (and thus changed not to white Waffenfarbe but to yellow, interestingly rather similar to Luftwaffe Yellow). Like the 19th, it was sent to Italy in the summer of 1944 and there completed its transformation to a standard infantry division (also obtaining the title Sturm, signifying only that it was now capable of offensive action). If fought until December 1944, reinforced by men from the 19th in August. By December, the division was so depleted that it was dissolved. As it has performed more than credibly however, the remaining men entered service with the 26th Panzerdivision.

[Corvidae]

Sergei,
have you been playing C&C again?
UGH!


Dandelion,
Sounds interesting, I would like to find more info on these luftwaffe infantry divisions,

[Andreas]

For info on LW Felddivisionen:

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=6292

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=73733

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=55943

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=90624

All the best

Andreas

[Dandelion]

Originally posted by Corvidae:

Dandelion,

Sounds interesting, I would like to find more info on these luftwaffe infantry divisions, Use Andreas' links to your advantage, I have no online links to offer but can as always recommend Tessin. Below a summary.

The first Luftwaffe field units were actually created in the (early) winter of 1942. Under command of AOK16 (Hgr Nord) stood the Lw-Division Meindl consisting of Lw-Feld-Rgt 1.-5., plus Rgt 14. but this regiment had only a regimental Hq. It also included the Ski-Bataillon of Luftflotte I. In the centre there was the Lw-Infanterie-Regiment Moskau and in Finland was raised the 1. Lw.Feld-Btl.

The order to raise Lw-Feld-Divisionen was issued September 12th 1942 and responsibility was given to Fliegerkorps XIII. The first eight divisions (1.-8.) started training in October, apparently all in Groß-Born with the men mainly drawn from Flieger regiments 10 (Neukuhren), 14 (Klagenfurt), 21 (Magdeburg) and 42 (Stade), plus a number of anonymous contributor Lw units. These divisions consisted of four battallions except 7th which had only three and 8th appearing to have had only two. There were no regimental Hqs in the divisions. In addition, each of these divisions had an antitank battallion, antiaircraft battallion, artillery battallion, a signal company and a pioneer company.

Second generation (divisions 9-20) were trained in various locations. Most of them still in Groß-Born, the rest in Fallingbostl, Bergen/Celle and Arys. Identified contributor Lw units were Flieger Regiments 62 (Quedlingburg), 72 (Detmold), 12 (Handorf), 13 (Neubiberg), 61 (Oschatz), 23 (Kaufbeuren) and the abovementioned Lw.Inf.Rgt.Moskau (formed the core of 19th division). In addition, recruits were drawn from general reserves of the Luftgau IV. The battallion in Finland was renamed Landesschützen Bataillon 1 der Luftwaffe and did not provide manpower for any of these divisions. These divisions consisted of two Lw-Jäger-Rgt of three battallions each, plus an artillery regiment of three or four battallions (of which one was Flak), a recon company, pioneer company and signals company.

Divisions 21 and 22 were planned to be raised using the abovementioned Lw-Division Meindl as core, but this never came to be. Number 22 was never raised and 21st used a newly trained regiment (43) as core unit instead. The Meindl division was instead transformed into a number of Lw Jäger Bataillone (three to be precise). These were never transferred to the army, instead their number was increased to 10 by the end of the war.

There were a number of other odd units raised, belong to the Lw Feld units. Lw-Feld-Rgt 501-503 were raised in Norway. Later transfered to the army with the others.

In Italy, the Wach-Bataillone OBS (Oberbefehlshaber Süd) 1 to 4 were raised and some served in Tunisia. They were dissolved, not transferred, in 1943.

In the Balkans Sicherungs-Bataillone I to VI were raised by late 1944 and these were formally part of the Lw-Feld troops as well, although the divisions of that force belonged to the army by then.

As the divisions proper reached fronts and started suffering (abnormal) casualties, Flieger regiments 11, 16, 24, 26, 33, 41 and 43 were all dissolved to provide replacements.

Divisions 7 and 8 "disappeared" in the chaos after Stalingrad, the odd survivors were adopted by division 15. Division 2 was destroyed at Nevel in october 1943 (survivors went to division 6) and division 3 was destroyed at Vitebsk. Division 15, consisting primarily of remnants and survivors, proved an unstable formation and was dissolved. All other divisions suffered various grevious rates of casualties.

The order to transfer to the army was issued november first 1943. The army inherited the remnants of divisions 1, 4-6, 9-14 and 16-21. The heavy battallions of the artilleryregiments were not transferred to the army, they returned to serve as Flak units.

It wasn't the end of the Lw Feld troops though. In october 1944 the Luftwaffe were ordered to provide 40 fortress battallions, each of 3 companies, for service along the West Wall. There were delivered, numbered I-XXXX. None of them saw any extended service, but were dissolved, the men going to army or paratroop formations.

Also by october 44, the Luftwaffe raised a number of Lw-Inf-Btl (41, 42, 51, 52 (all these in Germany), 81 (Slovakia), 82 (slovakia), 85 (Budapest)) and these served until destroyed or until VE day.

A division of airforce infantry was raised in march 45 in Berlin. These were school personnel and such. To label them part of the Lw Feld troops is possible but highly academic.

That's the frame of Luftwaffe service.

In army service the divisions retained their number but were called Feld-Div. (L) and the regiments were simply called Jäger-Rgt (not Lw). Divisions 4, 6, 16, 17, 18, 19 and 21 were three regiment divisions, the rest had only two. They used Division n.A. organisation (in Western literature often called Division 44 organisation). They received green Waffenfarbe (arm of service colour of the Jäger, or rifle, corps) except division 20. After retraining, Divisions 4 and 6 were sent to the central (eastern) front, 9, 10, 12, 13 and 21 to the northern (eastern) front, 16-18 were sent west, 19 and 20 sent south (Italy), 11th to the Aegean and 14th to Norway.

By spring 44 divisions 9, 10 and 13 were destroyed on the eastern front.

Division 19 was actually destroyed in Italy but then recreated as a regular infantry division. Also destroyed in Italy was division 20, re-raised as division 155 (a training division).

Divisions 4 and 6 were destroyed in july 44, estern front.

Divisions 16 and 17 were destroyed in Normandy and division 18 was ditto in Belgium some weeks later. Remnants were used to raise two regular infantry divisions.

The only formations to survive as such until VE day were 11 (Greece) and 14 (Norway).

Hope that helped get you started in penetrating the subject in greater detail.

Cheers
Dandelion

[JonS]

Would you happen to have the Div insignia for 16 Div in Normandy?

[Kingfish]

Originally posted by JonS:
Would you happen to have the Div insignia for 16 Div in Normandy? http://www.ndcs.org.uk/images/running_man.JPG

[JonS]

smile.gif

To be fair though, didn't the 16th do passingly well? Granted they sort of evaporated during GOODWOOD, but they were just a tad outgunned in that one ...

[John Kettler]

Dandelion,

Rats! You beat me to it on the Dien Bien Phu M24 Chaffees. As for the use those prime Luftwaffe recruits were put to after not even being trained by combat verterans or properly officered, what a waste!

Regards,

John Kettler

[Kingfish]

Originally posted by JonS:
smile.gif

To be fair though, didn't the 16th do passingly well? Granted they sort of evaporated during GOODWOOD, but they were just a tad outgunned in that one ... I guess it depends on what you mean by passingly well. As compared to the other low-grade IDs they performed as well as could be expected. They just had the misfortune of being in the path of two major CW offensives in the span of two weeks.

[Dandelion]

Originally posted by JonS:
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To be fair though, didn't the 16th do passingly well? Granted they sort of evaporated during GOODWOOD, but they were just a tad outgunned in that one ... Well yes I think they did perform credibly. Normandy was after the army restructuring and reorganisation of the divisions. They ought to have performed like any other infantry division and by and large they did. Like Kingfish I tend to regard them as a regular reserve division, performing as such.

And as for the performance before that point, it was merely the inevitable consequence of the endemic dilettantism of their government.

All the best
Dandelion