View Full Version : OOB question on Sardinian Garrision July 1943
Gentlemen looking for details on the Axis garrison of Sardinia at the time of the Sicily invasion.
Michael Emrys
10-12-2003, 04:25 PM
I can't give you a complete rundown, but IIRC one of the consequences of Operation Mincemeat was that Hitler ordered that it be reinforced with a Panzer brigade.
Michael
Potential Italian Player
10-12-2003, 05:11 PM
Hi Hans, i've some details for you. smile.gif
July-September 1943
About Italy:
3 Infantry Divisions (Sabauda,Calabria, Bari)
2 Coastal Divisions
1 Paras Division (Nembo)
plus a marine command (La Maddalena) and an air command.
= 130.000 men .
About Germany:
The 90 PanzerGrenadier Division and other little units. = 25.000 men .
Sources:
"Der Krieg in Europa" Frido von Senger und Etterlin
"Soldati" Carlo Vallauri
[ October 12, 2003, 02:16 PM: Message edited by: Potential Italian Player ]
Potential Italian Player
10-12-2003, 05:13 PM
double post. redface.gif
[ October 12, 2003, 02:16 PM: Message edited by: Potential Italian Player ]
Most of the tanks used by this island's garrison were S-35s (source: Captured Tanks in German Service). Now if we can only have seperate bmps for the S-35s and R-35s (which the Italians used in strength--notably on the attack on Gela, Sicily)in CMAK.
Nafziger (Panzers and Artillery) has a fairly detailed TOE for 90th PzGren Div for 6th July 1943 on Sardinia. Details available on req.
Regards
JonS
[ October 13, 2003, 03:07 AM: Message edited by: JonS ]
Hi JonS
Yes please
Request submitted. I do have a cruder OOB which shows some odd elements to include a Gebirgs company, ex french foreign legion and others.
Ah Potential Italian Player
Would you happen to have the IDs on those two coastal divisions?
Potential Italian Player
10-13-2003, 12:36 PM
Originally posted by Hans:
Ah Potential Italian Player
Would you happen to have the IDs on those two coastal divisions? No, i'm sorry.
The two coastal divisions were part of XIII army corps (General Reisoli-Matthieu) with the Sabauda infantry divison.
The other army corps was the XXX (General Castagna) which included Calabria and Bari infantry divisions with Nembo paras division.
Romulus
10-13-2003, 01:47 PM
I found the following OoB that is slightly different from that posted by Potential Italian Player:
XIII Army Corps
"Sabauda" Inf. Div.
203rd Coastal Div.
205th Coastal Div.
XXX Army Corps
"Calabria" Inf. Div.
204th Coastal Div.
IV Coastal Brigade
Mobile Reserve
"Bari" Inf. Div. (the only one with vehicles and an artillery Regiment)
"Nembo" Para Division
XXXIII Coastal Brigade
Armoured Group (Raggruppamento Corazzato)
Source: Filippo Stefani "La storia della dottrina e degli ordinamenti dell'Esercito Italiano", 1985
Peppe
Potential Italian Player
10-13-2003, 02:25 PM
Originally posted by Romulus:
I found the following OoB that is slightly different from that posted by Potential Italian Player:
XIII Army Corps
"Sabauda" Inf. Div.
203rd Coastal Div.
205th Coastal Div.
XXX Army Corps
"Calabria" Inf. Div.
204th Coastal Div.
IV Coastal Brigade
Mobile Reserve
"Bari" Inf. Div. (the only one with vehicles and an artillery Regiment)
"Nembo" Para Division
XXXIII Coastal Brigade
Armoured Group (Raggruppamento Corazzato)
Source: Filippo Stefani "La storia della dottrina e degli ordinamenti dell'Esercito Italiano", 1985
Peppe Yes it's more accurate. smile.gif
Hans, take this OOB.
Gentlemen much appreciated.
If you come across any other details about Sardinia I'd love to get it.
Large Grazie
wilco - what's your timeline? I'm away from my books for a few days.
Andreas
10-13-2003, 07:12 PM
90. Pzgren. from Lexikon der Wehrmacht, not sure if this was on Sicily.
90. Panzergrenadier-Division 1943:
Panzergrenadier-Regiment 155
Panzergrenadier-Regiment 200
Panzergrenadier-Regiment 361
Panzerabteilung 190
Sturmgeschütz-Abteilung 242
Panzerjäger-Kompanie 1./190
Artillerie-Regiment 190
Divisionseinheiten 190
Nafziger is more detailed, but you have to wait for Jon for that.
For tanks - 1 Panzer III 50L42, 20 Panzer IIIN, and, err, 37 Panzer IV 75L48/3 (long anyway)
Commander when the division went into the cassino sector was Oberst Baade.
Thanks Andreas, had part of that from a site I found on the 90th, tank info is invaluable.
Vielen Danke
JonS Timeline, sometime after Cmak comes up, preparing the scenario on paper at the moment.
Romulus
10-14-2003, 12:47 PM
I checked on Nafziger's book.
On 12 May 1943 the Sardinien Division was formed from the Sturmbrigade XI and consisted of:
Sardinien Division
..1st Sardinien Panzergrenadier Regt
..2nd Sardinien Panzergrenadier Regt
..Sardinien Panzer Battalion
..1st-3rd Sardinien Panzerjaeger Companies
..Sardinien Artillery Regt
..Sardinien Signals Company
The 90th Panzergrenadier Division was formed on 6 July 1943 from units drawn from Sardinien Div.
90th Panzergrenadier Division
Divisional HQ
..190th(mot) Mapping Detachment
..Staff/90th (mot) Schuetzen Brigade
..Divisional Escort Company
....1 Motorcycle Platoon
....1 Panzerjaeger Platoon
....1 Pioneer Platoon
155th Panzergrenadier Regt (from 1st Sardinien Panzergrenadier Regt)
..Staff and Staff Company
..1st (mot) Battalion
..2nd (partially mot) Battalion
..1 (mot) Infantry Gun Company
200th Panzergrenadier Regt (from 2nd sardinien Panzergrenadier Regt)
..same as 155th Panzergrenadier Regt
361st Panzergrenadier Regt (from 853rd Sturm Regt)
..same as 155th Panzergrenadier Regt
1 Mixed Gebirgsjaeger Company
190th Panzer Battalion (from Sardinien Pz Battalion)
..Staff and Staff Company
..2 Pz companies (Pz IV)
..1 Maintenance Platoon
..3 Companies from Wege Command
242nd Army Sturmgeschuetz Battalion
..Staff and Staff Battery
..3 Sturmgeschuetz Batteries
1st Company, 190th Panzerjaeger Battalion
190th Artillery Regt (from Sardinien Artillery Regt)
..Staff and staff Battery
..1st (mot) leFH Battalion (105mm light field howitzer)
....Staff and Staff Battery
....3 (mot) 105mm leFH Batteries)
..2nd (mot) Mixed Heavy Battalion
....Staff and Staff Battery
....1 100mm K18 Battery
....2 150mm sFH Batteries
..3rd Battalion
....Staff and Staff Battery
....2 Self-propelled leFH Batteries (6 SdKfz 124 Wespe each)
....1 Self-propelled sFH Battery (6 sdKfz 165 6 Hummel)
2/5th Luftwaffe Flak Regt
..Staff
..3 Heavy Flak Batteries (88mm guns)
..2 Light Flak Batteries (20mm guns)
..1 (20 ton) Light Flak Column
190th Pioneer Battalion
..Staff
..3 (mot) Pioneer Companies
190th Divisional Service Units
The Panzer inventory reported by Nafziger is exactly the same as the one found by Andreas.
Peppe
El Savior
10-14-2003, 02:12 PM
I believe some maps might help a little:
Campaign in Sicily, 10th July (http://www.dean.usma.edu/history/web03/atlases/ww2%20europe/ww2%20europe%20pages/ww2%20europe%20map%2045.htm)
Campaign in Sicily, 11th July (http://www.dean.usma.edu/history/web03/atlases/ww2%20europe/ww2%20europe%20pages/ww2%20europe%20map%2046.htm)
These are West Point scans from http://www.dean.usma.edu/
Edit: Darn, no Sardinia in maps... But it might help anyway. :eek:
El Savior
[ October 14, 2003, 11:22 AM: Message edited by: El Savior ]
Great stuff Romulus, and thanks for the attempt El Savior.
Some strange items in that division, such as:
" ..1 (20 ton) Light Flak Column"
"3 Companies from Wege Command"
"1 Mixed Gebirgsjaeger Company"
Not so strange but wondering what Assault gun they had in these units
3 Sturmgeschuetz Batteries
Oh any details on those Italian divisions?
Kingfish
10-14-2003, 05:18 PM
Originally posted by Hans:
Great stuff Romulus, and thanks for the attempt El Savior.
Some strange items in that division, such as:
" ..1 (20 ton) Light Flak Column"
"3 Companies from Wege Command"
"1 Mixed Gebirgsjaeger Company"
Not so strange but wondering what Assault gun they had in these units
3 Sturmgeschuetz Batteries [/QB]Add to that 2 platoons from the 1st Noogee regiment and the entire 8th titty twister brigade
A truly groggy question, what was "Wege Command"???
Andreas
10-15-2003, 11:14 AM
Originally posted by Hans:
Some strange items in that division, such as:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Hans:
[QB]" ..1 (20 ton) Light Flak Column" Columns (Kolonne) are normally supply units. This one would have enough transport to lift 20 tons (metric), and was presumably assigned to a light AA battery originally.
Originally posted by Hans:
"3 Companies from Wege Command"Road builders - might have been Organisation Todt. I would think that Nafziger just tried to semi-translate something here. Alternatively it could be a transport unit assigned to a higher HQ.
Originally posted by Hans:
Not so strange but wondering what Assault gun they had in these units
3 Sturmgeschuetz Batteries Probably L48 equipped Stugs. The same Abteilung (242) later showed up at Cassino.
Romulus
10-15-2003, 12:04 PM
Originally posted by Hans:
Some strange items in that division, such as:
" ..1 (20 ton) Light Flak Column"
"3 Companies from Wege Command"
"1 Mixed Gebirgsjaeger Company"
Not so strange but wondering what Assault gun they had in these units
3 Sturmgeschuetz Batteries The "Mixed Gebirgsjaeger Company" is the 190th Gebirgsjaeger Company.
The 242nd Sturmgeschuetz Battalion consisted of:
1 Sturmgeschuetz HQ Company
3 Sturmgeschuetz Companies (7x75mm and 3x105mm StuG each)
I have not found anything about the Italian Coastal Divisions. I am quite sure they have no Artillery Regiment and I can only guess they had 2 Infantry Regiments.
Peppe
Franko
10-16-2003, 02:52 AM
was there any FIGHTING on Sardinia? Or even Corsica?
Very little if any. However I'm going to base a fictional operation on that island.
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