Question for Dutch military symbol grogs

[Hans]

Okay I have a map of the Dutch airfield at Waalhaven that has the following unit marks on it.

49th PEL.LU.MITR

Any ideas? I'm thinking AAA but can someone confirm?

Also

3 III ZL.AFP.TL and
77 BT.LU.A

And the big question anyone have a link to WWII Dutch military map symbols!

I've figured out the Jager regiment just those three about are a bit puzzling

Thanks

Hans

http://www.mydocsonline.com/pub/Cmbattles/Rdam%201940.jpg

[John D Salt]

Originally posted by Hans:
Okay I have a map of the Dutch airfield at Waalhaven that has the following unit marks on it.

49th PEL.LU.MITR

Any ideas? I'm thinking AAA but can someone confirm?I don't speak a word of Dutch, but on the basis that there are no great national barriers to military thought, I would guess that PEL signifies platoon (like the French "peloton"), LU signifies anti-aircraft (Luft is air in German) and MITR signifies machine-gun (like the French "mitrailleuse"). The associated symbol certainly looks as if it might signify AAMGs.

Originally posted by Hans:

3 III ZL.AFP.TL and
77 BT.LU.ANo idea about the first one, but I'd guess that the second was a battery (or perhaps battalion) of anti-aircraft artillery.

Originally posted by Hans:

And the big question anyone have a link to WWII Dutch military map symbols!
'Fraid not, but I expect they bear some family resemblance to the German system.

All the best,

John.

[Stoffel]

Hi Hans,

You were right about the machinegun.
49th pel LU Mitr,means 49th platoon luchtafweer(airdefense) mitrailleur(machinegun)probably a lewis on a tripod.

The other Bt LU.A means batterij luchtafweer artillery or simply light AAA in English.

I am not sure what the abbreviations in the other one mean exactly butI think its Heavy AAA like cannons.

I have lookead at your map,the circles with the arrows are defensive positions with the arrow pointing to the firesector.

[Aragorn2002]

49th PEL.LU.MITR 49ste Peleton Luchtdoelmitrailleurs (49th Peleton Air target Machine Guns)

3 III ZL.AFP.TL Hmmm, ZL probably means zelfstandig (indepedent), AFD means afdeling (detachment), TL, no sorry, haven't got a clue, probably AA.

77 BT.LU.A 77ste luchtdoelbatterij (77th battery air target)

The Dutch AA batteries shot down at least 300 German planes in less than five days, although it must be said that a large part of them were slow Ju-52 transport planes which tried to land on and near the reasonably defended airfields near Den Haag and Rotterdam.

[Aragorn2002]

ZL also could mean Zoeklicht (search light). Not at all sure of that, just a suggestion with regard to the area this unit covers on the map.

[Hans]

Thanks

Yep I believe those are search lights

Bedankt voor je hulp

[Aragorn2002]

Graag gedaan en succes met je scenario.

[Jaws]

TL means Tegen Luchtdoelen (Against Air targets or AA)

[Hans]

Thanks Jaws

As I have a number of Dutch speakers on this thread....

I'm looking for more material for Dutch scenarios - both in May 1940 and the defense of the Dutch East Indies. If you have any ideas or info please send it on, most willing to do a coopertive scenario and give credit.

Wayn100@emirates.net.ae

Anyone know a Dutch military Grog out there?

[Jaws]

Originally posted by Hans:
Thanks Jaws

As I have a number of Dutch speakers on this thread....

I'm looking for more material for Dutch scenarios - both in May 1940 and the defense of the Dutch East Indies. If you have any ideas or info please send it on, most willing to do a coopertive scenario and give credit.

Wayn100@emirates.net.ae

Anyone know a Dutch military Grog out there? You’re welcome, I think this is a nice battle.

http://www.generalissue.com/history/ypenberg.html

[Hans]

""The German invasion began around 3 a.m. on May 10, but problems started immediately. In the 18th Army sector, commando teams only captured one of a dozen target bridge crossings. It took Xth Corps at the Grebbe Line four days to secure its first day objectives. The three SS regiments put in a less than sterling performance. Protected by inundation on one flank and the Neder-Rijn River on the other, the Crebbeberg strongpoint, held by the 8th Infantry Regiment, withstood successive frontal assaults by the SS for three days. The 1st Cavalry Division's attempt to storm the fortresses guarding the Afsluitdijk crossing over the Isselmeer failed completely with heavy losses, in spite of the support of 88mm anti-aircraft guns.""

Very scenarioish, if we can find a map and more descriptive explanation of what happened. The German fight to penetrate the Grebbe line has great potential.

I'd say that such material probably exists but only in Dutch. I'm quite sure the Dutch General Staff College has studied these actions to death.

The book where the Waalhaven map came from might have some info.

Hans

[Michael Dorosh]

My (Canadian) Regiment fought at Walcheren Causeway from 31 October to 2 November 1944. I read recently that when our monument went up in the late 1980s at the Causeway (which is no longer a causeway, as all the surrounding territory has been reclaimed from the sea in typical Dutch fashion) there was also a monument to the Dutch who fought there in 1940.

Does anyone have any clue what happened there (the Causeway linking Walcheren Island to South Beveland) in 1940? I have no access to any kind of sources.

[Aragorn2002]

Michael, here is one of the few links (well, actually the only one) I could find. Still in development though by the looks of it and not very enlightening.

http://www.hoebeke.com/en/slagveld.php3

Seems to have been a battle between French and German (Waffen SS?) troops. I will try to find out more.

[ March 27, 2004, 10:22 PM: Message edited by: aragorn2002 ]

[Hans]

Another interesting episode, there seem to be some interesting gems in those early Dutch days of the war.

Possible areas of interest - I'll contact the Dutch Command and General staff college and does anyone have a list of Dutch war game clubs? Those miniature guys tend to ferret out such information.

Hans

[Michael Dorosh]

Thanks guys. Aragorn, it is funny - the picture of the Glasgow Highlander is actually a reference to the 1944 battle, while the other info on the site seems related to the 1940 battle. The Glasgow Highlanders relieved the Canadian 5th Brigade on the 2nd of November after we failed to expand our bridgehead on the western side of the causeway.

EDIT - just looked around on the whole site - wish I spoke Dutch, looks like this guy has researched both battles - ie 1940 and 1944. Nice find!

[ March 28, 2004, 12:54 AM: Message edited by: Michael Dorosh ]

[Jaws]

Speaking about the Canadians they battled a lot in Holland. I’ve bin on a battlefield tour 3 weeks ago in the area of the town Zutphen alongside the river IJSSEL. We followed a part of operation “Cannon shot” (April 1945). They formed a bridgehead at the village of Gorssel (there is a Canadian monument) with Buffalos and build 2 pontoons bridges. I have a lot of detailed info and was planning to make a scenario in CMAK. But in CMAK the Canadians are only modelled until 1943. :mad:

A funny thing is that they would free Holland the same way as the Germans attacked it 5 years earlier.

We owe a lot to the Canadians smile.gif

http://home.planet.nl/~zwaan480/Gorssel.jpg


Edit due spell error.... redface.gif

[ March 28, 2004, 05:38 AM: Message edited by: Jaws ]

[Aragorn2002]

We own a lot in Canada, you mean ;)?

[Aragorn2002]

Sorry, you mean 'owe' of course, couldn't resist.

Nice map.

[ March 28, 2004, 05:18 AM: Message edited by: aragorn2002 ]

[Michael Dorosh]

The Canadians are in the CMAK editor until February 1945, actually.

And you can change the date in "paramaters" and put them in any timeframe you want, even if they aren't originally in that time frame. So go ahead and use them!

The units depicted on your map (PPCLI, Loyal Edmontons and Seaforth Highlanders) fought in Italy (CMAK) from July 1943 to February 1945, funnily enough. The 1st and 5th Divisions transferred to Holland in Feb-Mar 1945 and saw combat again in April, turning west as the other Canadian divisions header north and east into Germany.

[Bertram]

Michael,

The book is not available at the University Library (not in the catalog, so also not in an other University Library in the Netherlands). Makes me wonder if it isn't a provate project of the author.

The "official" history of the second World War for the Netherklands is written by Dr. L. de Jong. 10 book, of which the latter ones are divided in parts A and B I believe. Part 3 describes the May days of 1940. Chapter 7 is devoted to Zeeland (pages 433 to 445). It is rather low on details, but gives as attacker the SS-Standarte "Gross Deutschland".

Defenders were the several Dutch reserve regiments, added straglers from the Peel (rather demoralized), and parts of the French 60st and 68th infantry devisions (reservists, most called up just before the fighting and without proper equipment).

I'll try to post a picture and a map from the book.


Bertram

edit: can't seem to post a picture. Have some scans, will add them when I have puzzled out how to do it.

[ March 28, 2004, 11:55 AM: Message edited by: Bertram ]

[Bertram]

Picture??





Bertram

[Michael Dorosh]

Grossdeutschland was an Army formation and their III Battalion fought in operation Niwi - an air landing at the Peel Line, IIRC. I think you mean SS Standarte "Deutschland"?

[Bertram]

The book gives it as "the regiment SS-Standarte "Gross Deutschland" which had to take the islands". Don't blame me smile.gif .


Bertram

[Jaws]

Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:
The Canadians are in the CMAK editor until February 1945, actually.

And you can change the date in "paramaters" and put them in any timeframe you want, even if they aren't originally in that time frame. So go ahead and use them!

The units depicted on your map (PPCLI, Loyal Edmontons and Seaforth Highlanders) fought in Italy (CMAK) from July 1943 to February 1945, funnily enough. The 1st and 5th Divisions transferred to Holland in Feb-Mar 1945 and saw combat again in April, turning west as the other Canadian divisions header north and east into Germany. Thanks, I don't get why I didn't see that. (I will start with the scenario direct smile.gif )

The 1st Canadian Army did this operation. It was the first time that they did an operation independent from the other Allies and under full Canadian command. Except for Arnhem, that city was to be done by the British 47 Infantry Division as a revenge for Market Garden.

The part we followed was done by the 2nd Infantry Brigade from the 1st Infantry Division from the 1st Army Corps reinforced with tanks from the 5th Tank Division. The Battalions you mention are from the 2nd Infantry Brigade.

Nice to read that they did their job in Italy. That explains to me why they did a very good job here on tactical level. I did quite a lot of battlefield tours but was never impressed by the way the Allies did their job on tactical level. I’ve seen two exceptions now, Team Desorby (Noville) and the Canadians in the area of Zutphen.

[Michael Dorosh]

The First and Fifth Divisions were more than a little pissed at having to come to Holland to finish the war on many levels. Eighth Army had kicked the Germans out of the desert, and they were proud to be associated with the guys wearing the Crusader's Cross on their shoulders. Also, Eighth Army had very lax rules when it came to dress and "chicken**** rules" as they called it. As long as you could fight that was what counted. Arriving in Holland, they had their beloved Thompsons taken away (in favour of the Sten), were told that dress regulations would be firmly enforced, and moreover, having fought from July 1943 to February 1945 in Italy, they felt they had done their part.

When news of the Third Division landing in Normandy reached Italy, one harassed First Division soldier grumbled "about time those bastards did something." He wasn't alone in his thinking; the First Div had been in action for 11 months, and would see 11 more months of active service before it was all over.

So the fact that they were able to maintain their professionalism in the closing weeks of the war despite the morale issues, says a lot. They were also accepting draftees into combat units by this time, also.

[Mies]

I would just like to mention the book by E.H. Brongers (ISBN : 90 6045 365 4) called "Grebbelinie 1940" out of the Hollandia Pocket series published in 1971. It describes in detail the battle that was waged in Holland in May 1940 with the focus as the title suggest on the defense of the Grebbeline. It uses official war diaries as well as eye witness accounts. It also contains some maps some detailed down to compagnie level wich could make excellent scenario material.

For all the Dutch speakers here check this (http://www.internetboekhandel.nl/ltsearch.php?sf1=isbn&words=9060453654&partner=verg) link.

In addition to that I also found a reference in the series "Nederland en de Tweede Wereldoorlog" by Waanders Uitgevers a series published in 1989. In part3, page 74, it mentions the envolvement of the SS Standarte Gross Deutschland during the battle in Zeeland. At least that is what the accompanying text to a photograph taken by "Bilderberichter Zschaekel" says.

Below is a good overview of the Dutch defensive lines just before the German invasion on the 10th of May 1940. I took this from the same series as described before. This image was taken from part 1, page 25.

http://home.wanadoo.nl/koning25/cm/Dutch_defensive_lines_May_1940.jpg

Edit : Cause I can't type.

[ March 30, 2004, 09:13 AM: Message edited by: Mies ]

[Hans]

Its starting to look like some of the talented Dutch speakers will need to scenarioize those days in May!

Anything from the German side? German Army Grogs?

[Michael Dorosh]

Hmm, well, the Grossdeutschland did loan a battalion out for an airlanding assault on the Peel Line - nicely shown in the map above. Advanced Squad Leader did a scenario about it, but guess what, they got the name wrong, too and called them SS Regiment Deutschland.

:D

To reiterate:

Infantry Regiment Grossdeutschland was an Army formation; they fought mainly in France (their big battle was at Stonne), but the III Bataillon did see action at the Peel line. Their airlanding was in Feiseler Storchs if memory serves.

The dudes who fought at the Causeway were SS troops, not sure of the actual designation but SS Standarte Deutschland may be correct. No "Gross" in the title.

A lot of bad history floated around in the 1960s that got the wild idea GD was part of the SS. Looks like one of the sources mentioned above (dated 1971) helped perpetuate that myth.

[Michael Emrys]

I have been searching through my collection in search of the identity of the SS units involved in the attack through Groningen and Friesland to capture the Isselmeer causeway, so far without success. I am sure that my copy of GDW's "Fall of France" gives them at least a tentative identification, but it hasn't turned up yet.

To the best of my recollection, it was a ragtag Kampfgrup composed of some motorised infantry, motorised artillery, and some odds and ends including some AA, all amounting to about a regiment in strength but in fighting power considerably less than that due to poor training and leadership.

I also have a vague recollection that the Cavalry Division (Heer) was involved on this part of the front, but I may be misremembering that bit. I'll keep searching and if anything turns up I'll post it.

Michael

[Michael Dorosh]

According to Men At Arms (I know, I know redface.gif ), SS-Standarte 1 "Deutschland" was formed and served in the Anschluss in 1938. The number "1" was dropped when the honour title "Deutschland" was adopted.

SS-Standarte "Deutschland" served, with 3 other SS Standarten, in the Verfügungsdivision (so named by the spring of 1940 but assembled in October 1939).

This division later became Division "Das Reich".

[Hans]

So where is the material? To say the least scenario material is lacking!

Any active duty or reserve Dutch military around??

[JonS]

Hans, could you email me please?

Jon

[Hans]

Sent

[Hans]

Dutch speakers could you take a look at the following translation: First my translation and then the original Dutch, can you let me know if I'm close!

Waalhaven was the home base of Dutch 3rd JaVa (Jachtvliegtuig Afdeeling) or Hunting Squadron. It was equipped with 11 Fokker G-1 Fighter Cruisers (nicknamed destroyers).

Their mission was to protect the Netherland’s largest harbour, Rotterdam. The airport itself was defended by a battalion of the Jaeger regiment. Two of the three companies had been set up outside the airport. E company was stationed on the field along with a mixed company of AAA guns. Their were in total six heavy and nineteen light machine guns. By the main building two light armor vehicles had been supplied by the Army. The reserve amounted to two platoons. Grenades had not been distributed unfortunately. Telephone connections were also missing. With the being of the war looming fighting positions were begun on the 8th of May. On 10 May, only one concrete and two wooden bunkers were finished. Another difficulty was the fact that Waalhaven was surrounded on three sides by a two meters high fence. Considering the absolutely flat terrain troops outside of the airport could not see what was happening on the airfield.


Waalhaven was de thuisbasis van 3 JAVA. De met 11 G-1s uitgeruste vliegafdeling. Gelegen aan de grootste Rotterdamse haven werd het vliegveld verdedigd door een bataljon van het regiment jagers. Twee van de drie compagnieën waren opgesteld buiten het vliegveld. Eén compagnie kon, samen met een compagnie mitrailleurs op het landingsterrein vuren. Dat waren in totaal zes zware en negentien lichte mitrailleurs. Bij het hoofdgebouw stonden nog twee lichte pantserwagens. De reserve bedroeg een man of tachtig. Handgranaten waren niet uitgereikt. Telefonische verbindingen ontbraken. Met het maken van gevechtsopstellingen was op 8 mei pas begonnen. Op 10 mei waren slechts één betonnen bunker en twee, kleinere kazematten beschikbaar voor de opstelling van de mitrailleurs. Erger was dat Waalhaven aan drie kanten (n,o,z) door een meer dan

twee meter hoge schutting werd omgeven. Buiten het vliegveld opgestelde troepen konden dus niet zien wat er op het vliegveld gebeurde.

[Mies]

Couldn't have done it better myself!

Mies

[Hans]

Dang, having that Dutch girlfriend finally paid off

[Michael Emrys]

From what I've seen of Dutch girls, I would have expected the rewards to be both more immediate and tangible than that.

:D

Michael

[dirkbogie]

Hi guys. Just joined the forum and came across your items on the Dutch in 1940. If anyone is interested my friends and I have been changing all the bmp files in CMBB so that you can use the Romanians as Dutch. Also changed all the flags and unit icons. We have done a few scenarios based on 1940 Dutch vs Germans and it seems to work ok. I wouldn't say it was perfect but it puts a whole new angle on playing Combat Mission. Anyone else waiting on a Fall of France/Low countries version of the game?

I've managed to get all the files into two folders...one has all the "dutch" items and one is all the original Romanian items. That way I can just swap and reload between the two.

The only problem I can see is the size of the folders....one is 7mb, the other 9mb. If there is any interest we may see about putting it on a website somewhere as a CMMOS file.

By the way....how do you post pictures? I have quite a few screen captures showing the "dutch" in action if someone could tell me how to do it.

Cheers.

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by dirkbogie:
Anyone else waiting on a Fall of France/Low countries version of the game?Yes.

By the way....how do you post pictures? I have quite a few screen captures showing the "dutch" in action if someone could tell me how to do it.First you have to post the pictures on a standard web site in the usual way. Then you can post a link here in various ways.

Michael

[Bertram]

Hans

"Eén compagnie" is translated by "One compagny", not by "E compagny" (the Dutch used numbers for the units, not characters, but in this case it just means "one of the -"). The "kazematten" are not wooden bunkers (there were generally no wooden bunkers in the Netherlands, the ground was to wet, and concrete was as easy to come by as wood logs, if not easier in the west). Kazematten are either fortified (machinegun) placements (probably in this case) or pillboxes.

Michael

My standard (Dutch) work on the WW2 gives as the attackers at the IJsselmeer causeway just the 1st Cavalry division (part on horses, part on bicycles). Their heavy artillery was stuck at Winschoten (near the German border), as it was rail bound and the rail bridge there was blown. They had some air supprot, but thos could not damage the (concrete) defensive works.

5 "detachments" (whatever that might be) on bicycles tried to attack, but got nowhere (they had to advance along a 3 mile long, bare road on top of the dike).

The divisional artillery tried to bombard the fortfications next day, but was in turn bombarded by naval guns (the gunboat Johan Maurits van Nassau with 3x 15 cm guns) and had to withdraw. German air support failed to hit the boat.

Next day the airforce once again tried to hit the defenders (with Stuka's this time) but didn't accomplish anything (rather surprising, as these bunkers were nowhere as impressive as the Maginot line).

Next day The Netherlands surrendered, after the German Airforce bombed Rotterdam, and thretened to do the same to other towns.

The defensive works at the Afsluitdijk are still there, and are open to visits)


Bertram

Nb.: this is mostly from Dr. L. de Jong, Het Koninkrijk der Nederlanden in de Tweede Wereldoorlog, part 3. It is the "official Dutch war history", but stronger on political issues then on military detail. Even though lots of detail is given the militairy facts seem to have been checked less at the source then the other details. I think this also accounts for the name confusion earlier (which came from the same book).

Bertram

[ April 13, 2004, 09:12 AM: Message edited by: Bertram ]

[Hans]

Thanks for the notes.

Waalhaven was completed (the scenario) but is being held in reserve due to a slight problem - it's rather dull and unbalanced....I gonna have to think about it.....

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by Hans:
Waalhaven was completed (the scenario) but is being held in reserve due to a slight problem - it's rather dull and unbalanced...Heh. My take is that most historical battles were unbalanced, sometimes very much so. That's why the arrows kept moving across the map.

Michael

[Hans]

True Michael

I may up the forces involved in the counter-attack, the main problem is the start. You have a very flat piece of terrain (the airfield is over 1 kilometer in every direction, containing an absolutely flat, featureless grass field)The green Dutch in their historic fixed positions tend to slaughter those who land there - despite history!

I'll also look at including it in the movement and fight for the bridge into Rotterdamm which was the Paras second objective.

[Stoffel]

Hans can you send me the battle?
Maybe I can give you some advice on what to change....
Always good if someone else takes a look first smile.gif

Henk

btw I found a webpage which explains the military symbols unfortunately its in dutch only.

http://www.grebbeberg.nl

[John Kettler]

Hans,

Have you considered treating the already in place but surprised defenders as reinforcements randomly arriving over a fairly short period and in well defined locations? Seems to me that this would allow you to at least semimodel the initial chaos without further degrading the core Dutch morale. You could also put some predetermined fraction of the force into pinned or shocked state to delay effective response--with or without moving some units away from their HQs.

Regards,

John Kettler

[Andreas]

Michael

Grossdeutschland did another air assault (Operation 'Niwi' by Fieseler Storch (tactically great, operationally bad) in the Ardennes. 10. and 11. GD. They needed 100 Storch planes for that. Are you sure they used a whole battalion in the Netherlands (that would need about 200 Fieseler Storch at least)??? Also, that would only leave 1.5 battalions to go on to Stonne.

[Hans]

Stoffel-large web site any oob or tactical maps in that pool of Dutch? Yes, I'll send it to you, let me see what shape it is in. Old scenario number 146 has been played in the holding pen. I had deleted a number of the reinforcements on both sides and was reducing and redoing the German reinforcements.

Johm, thanks for the ideas

[Stoffel]

yes there are smile.gif
the maps are in the BIBLIOTHEEK section.
they cover the entire defensive line, for both days of the german attack on the line.
Send me the links to the maps you are interested in and I will do a translation for you.
looking forward to the scenario

[Hans]

Stoffel, have sent you an email

That site has a lot of information. What area or place could we look at for a small action (smaller than a battalion say)? I was thinking up North might have some opportunities? With my very bad Danish and German I can get a sense of these materials but it would be easier if you could make a suggestion on a likely place to start.

[Stoffel]

Well the Germans broke through near Rhenen which was defended by a company of troops.

We could take that part of the battle.

[Hans]

Sounds good, I'll be tied up doing real world things until Tuesday but I'll start research then.

[Stoffel]

Hans,

Speaking about that dutch girlfriend...
That would not happen to be Edith van Noordwijk?

Henk

[Hans]

Since I have no idea who that is I'm confident in saying no.

[Stoffel]

Well,It would have been highly coincidental if that would have been the case smile.gif

[Hans]

I should get to finishing Waalhaven in a few days, six scenario ahead of it in the finishing queue.

Will send back to you for final Dutch approval.

Van der Zanden was her last name.

Hans

[Stoffel]

LOL.

Dont know her either smile.gif
Yes,I'd like to have the final battle.
What do you think of the names?

[Hans]

I thought adding in Mata Hari and Balkenende was a bit much but other than that ok!

[Stoffel]

adding Balkenende would have rendered the german troops efforts useless.
they would have died from laughing........

[Hans]

I remembered his name for some reason, something now forgotten, was he a prime minister or something some time ago? - what did he do to cause me to remember him! I was last in the Netherlands in 1986 - would he have been in power then?

[Mies]

Haha, no Balkenende is our Premier now. He is the guy that looks like Harry Potter so either you remember him from that or from one of his (tv) appearances that Stoffel referes to by saying that he is laughable and therefore our best first line of defence. Haha :D .

Mies

[eichenbaum]

edit:

Sorry... It was indeed too much.

Nils

[ May 03, 2004, 06:11 PM: Message edited by: eichenbaum ]

[Stoffel]

ohoh,a joke is OK.
But its starting to become a political debate,which isnt good.........

[Hans]

Sounds like we need a good May 1940 scenario for you two guys!

[Paul Atreides]

Could any of you guys help me?

I was thinking about doing a scenario based in Holland, but I can't get any inspiration! :S

I need an accurate map, as well as an historic event, but I can't find them anywhere. Any ideas?

[Stoffel]

yes,check this site,

www.grebbeberg.nl (http://www.grebbeberg.nl)

It has maps,stories,info and AAR´s of the battle fought in that region in 1940.

[Hans]

Stoffel

Sent the final draft for Waalhaven Assault to you. Contains corrections - thanks again for putting in those Dutch names!

I think it might be useful if we put in a paragraph in Dutch for any native Dutch speakers.

So what is the next Dutch CM project? If we cannot find a well documented historic action how about a Dutch force defending a canal crossing site against the advancing German forces while at the same time trying to recapture a railroad bridge behind their lines which was taken in the morning by paratroopers?

Hans

[Hans]

Stoffer I took a relook at Grebbe

What about De Voorposten or Hoornwerk, De Stoplijn, or Het Viaduct contacts?