German Inf Guns Hollow Charge Ammo

[sand digger]

Ran across some info concerning the AT hollow charge ('HC') available for the 75 and 150mm infantry guns. Couldn't find precise penetration figures for the 150 but did for the 105mm field artillery piece.

The 105 HC penetrated 100mm at zero degrees, the shell weighing 12.25kg. The 150 shell weighed 25.25kg so it should be safe to say that in 41-42 that shell would penetrate any British tank including the Matilda.

This goes to a point I raised a while ago about the inability in CMAK of the 150 to regularly knock out the Matilda. Which meant that without expensive 88's in CMAK against Matilda's you had little hope, making any relevant game rather pointless, particularly when considering the well discussed targeting limitation concerning the 150 in CMAK.

The HC performance point is raised merely to inform and to back up a previous comment. IIRC noone mentioned HC ammo when the previous comment was made. BTW, I'm not interested in getting into any arguments with the couple of Luddites or anyone else looking for confrontation who may be lurking around here.

Information is from Hogg's German Artillery of World War Two, Greenhill, 2002.

[mike_the_wino]

u suk

Oh wait...did I say that outloud?

Seriously, were these rounds available and common in the African theater? I can't believe that the lads at BFC left this out if it was common. Is it possible that this round wasn't sent to NA?

[Hamstersss]

I thought luddites (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luddite) were just against technology--you know, not just hollow charges but also normal rounds and the infantry guns that fire them and computers and video games, that kind of thing. It's the Amish (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amish) who are against change in general (And though that tends to include modern technology now, that is simply an unintended side-effect. Or maybe you mean that BFC and its fans are acting a little too set in their ways. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Orthodox)

Likely one of the latter two. The only luddite here is Dalem, and he's definitely a reformed neo-confucian luddite, basically a Baptist. There are, however, quite a number of Greek Orthodox posters and a disturbingly large minority of Amish CM players.

[Michael Emrys]

Plus a whole mess (I think that is the technical term) from the Church of the Sub-Genius.

Michael

[dalem]

Originally posted by Elijah Meeks:
I thought luddites (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luddite) were just against technology--you know, not just hollow charges but also normal rounds and the infantry guns that fire them and computers and video games, that kind of thing. It's the Amish (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amish) who are against change in general (And though that tends to include modern technology now, that is simply an unintended side-effect. Or maybe you mean that BFC and its fans are acting a little too set in their ways. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Orthodox)

Likely one of the latter two. The only luddite here is Dalem, and he's definitely a reformed neo-confucian luddite, basically a Baptist. There are, however, quite a number of Greek Orthodox posters and a disturbingly large minority of Amish CM players. I take absorption to that remark, Meeksie.

-dale

[Seanachai]

Now, now! Shall we let the man get on with his topic, please?

Although it is true that he doesn't seem to have a clue as to what a 'Luddite' is. Nor even a 'neo-Luddite'. Perhaps he'll find another term of opprobrium.

Now, where are the grogs? What about this 'HC charge of 150mm guns under modeled' argument, eh?

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by Seanachai:
Now, now! Shall we let the man get on with his topic, please?

Although it is true that he doesn't seem to have a clue as to what a 'Luddite' is. Nor even a 'neo-Luddite'. Perhaps he'll find another term of opprobrium.

Now, where are the grogs? What about this 'HC charge of 150mm guns under modeled' argument, eh? We need YOUR permission to carry on?!?!?!?!?

[Seanachai]

Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:
We need YOUR permission to carry on?!?!?!?!? Well, not to put too fine a point on it...yes.

Now, climb out of your 'Gross Deutschland' jammies (and I use the term 'gross' in a very English specific way, here), and help the bugger with his enquiries...

[Mike]

Are you using "bugger" in a very English specific way too??!! :eek: :confused: :eek:

[flamingknives]

Clearly not, as 'bugger' is a verb, not a noun.

[Sergei]

Originally posted by flamingknives:
Clearly not, as 'bugger' is a verb, not a noun. I thought it was a whole sentence, with an object for the imperative verb?

[Mike]

Originally posted by flamingknives:
Clearly not, as 'bugger' is a verb, not a noun. I'm impressed - someone here who can parse one of Sneeze's sentences and pretend to understand the grammar!!
:eek: :eek:

[John D Salt]

Originally posted by flamingknives:
Clearly not, as 'bugger' is a verb, not a noun. What is a verb doing being immediately preceded by a definite object, do tell?

All the best,

John.

[sand digger]

Hehe, you lurkers know SFA about the subject matter of the game don't you eh. Not one intelligent/constructive contribution to the subject. As I've come to expect and as others have warned me smile.gif

[Mace]

Originally posted by sand digger:
As I've come to expect and as others have warned me smile.gif Then...why'd you ask? tongue.gif

bloody banana benders.

Mace

[flamingknives]

Originally posted by John D Salt:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by flamingknives:
Clearly not, as 'bugger' is a verb, not a noun. What is a verb doing being immediately preceded by a definite object, do tell?

All the best,

John. </font>[/QUOTE]When 'Bugger' is used in the 'specific English way' that Mike is referring to, it is a verb.

It can also be used, as Seanachai has done, as a noun. But then it doesn't mean the same thing.

[flamingknives]

Originally posted by sand digger:
Hehe, you lurkers know SFA about the subject matter of the game don't you eh. Not one intelligent/constructive contribution to the subject. As I've come to expect and as others have warned me smile.gif The response may have something to do with the slight problem that trying to explain something to you is like smashing one's face repeatedly into a metre thick block of depleted uranium, that coincidently happens to be on fire.

It's painful and you don't get anywhere.


If, perhaps, you could provide some documentary evidence that the 150mm sIG was issued with hollowcharge shells in the relevant time-frame, or that using indirect fire in the manner of a Swingfire ATGM was a commonplace tactic for dealing with British armour with 105 or 150mm guns, then maybe we could have a discussion.

[Yeknodathon]

I think "bugger" and "hollow charge" is a coincidence too far for further comment. Of course, "hollow" is an adjective.