shooting prisoners

[bruceb]

here’s something weird (at least I thought so). early in a turn, a german hmg squad down to one guy surrenders. he sits there with his hands up for about 30 seconds or so then begins to crawl off. within 5 seconds after that he gets zapped. guys don’t “un-surrender” do they? probably just a stray round right?

this got me to thinking: what other weird, strange, funny, cool things have other people experienced on the cm battlefield?

one time a tiger took out two of my m8 greyhounds with one shot. I guess it went through the one then hit the other. I was a little miffed at first, but once I realized ‘yeah, it could really happen’ it was kind of cool.

other war stories?

[bruceb]

here’s something weird (at least I thought so). early in a turn, a german hmg squad down to one guy surrenders. he sits there with his hands up for about 30 seconds or so then begins to crawl off. within 5 seconds after that he gets zapped. guys don’t “un-surrender” do they? probably just a stray round right?

this got me to thinking: what other weird, strange, funny, cool things have other people experienced on the cm battlefield?

one time a tiger took out two of my m8 greyhounds with one shot. I guess it went through the one then hit the other. I was a little miffed at first, but once I realized ‘yeah, it could really happen’ it was kind of cool.

other war stories?

[Lithuanian]

Yes, they do unsurrender. I had one HMG surrender, then open up on me 2 turns later - need to take them into your control.

[Lithuanian]

Yes, they do unsurrender. I had one HMG surrender, then open up on me 2 turns later - need to take them into your control.

[Kobal2]

Uh ? I thought prisonners were unarmed whenever they surrendered ?

[Kobal2]

Uh ? I thought prisonners were unarmed whenever they surrendered ?

[Lithuanian]

Originally posted by Kobal2:
Uh ? I thought prisonners were unarmed whenever they surrendered ? So did I, maybe they reman the HMG. The other possibility is that it was a FOW result - never really prisoners?

Anyway, I was pretty ticked at the perfidious Hun - it was CMBB by the way.

[Lithuanian]

Originally posted by Kobal2:
Uh ? I thought prisonners were unarmed whenever they surrendered ? So did I, maybe they reman the HMG. The other possibility is that it was a FOW result - never really prisoners?

Anyway, I was pretty ticked at the perfidious Hun - it was CMBB by the way.

[Spears]

I had a game just lately where I had a sniper in some woods, an enemy squad 12 rifle men aproached and were cut down to 4 men by mg`s before they got to woods when they did my sniper killed all 4 with a pistol. I suppose becose he never used ammo. I thought it was funny.
Another time my sniper was walked over by some troops and there platoon leader stoped 3 meters to his front/leaders front, he was there 30 secs before they seen him the sniper was crack and in brush. He sadly passed away this time. We never recovered body either poor soul and I forget the poor chaps name (wipes tear) .....anyways smile.gif

[Spears]

I had a game just lately where I had a sniper in some woods, an enemy squad 12 rifle men aproached and were cut down to 4 men by mg`s before they got to woods when they did my sniper killed all 4 with a pistol. I suppose becose he never used ammo. I thought it was funny.
Another time my sniper was walked over by some troops and there platoon leader stoped 3 meters to his front/leaders front, he was there 30 secs before they seen him the sniper was crack and in brush. He sadly passed away this time. We never recovered body either poor soul and I forget the poor chaps name (wipes tear) .....anyways smile.gif

[David I]

Sicily 43 - Night
An Italian LMG squad opened up on a Brit Platoon doing some damage a short range, then became a Axis sign. I "area" fired a Vickers Machine gun on his position. In the next action phase the Italian takes fire from the Platoon, and from the Vickers and throws up his hands. A Brit Platoon leader (Panicked) crawls right toward his position and the Vickers proceeds to gun down the rest of the surrendering Italians and causes two friendly fire casualties to the Platoon leader. Very Dramatic. Very Sad. Lesson: Watch that area fire!

[David I]

Sicily 43 - Night
An Italian LMG squad opened up on a Brit Platoon doing some damage a short range, then became a Axis sign. I "area" fired a Vickers Machine gun on his position. In the next action phase the Italian takes fire from the Platoon, and from the Vickers and throws up his hands. A Brit Platoon leader (Panicked) crawls right toward his position and the Vickers proceeds to gun down the rest of the surrendering Italians and causes two friendly fire casualties to the Platoon leader. Very Dramatic. Very Sad. Lesson: Watch that area fire!

[Sergei]

Originally posted by bruceb:
one time a tiger took out two of my m8 greyhounds with one shot. I guess it went through the one then hit the other. I was a little miffed at first, but once I realized ‘yeah, it could really happen’ it was kind of cool.No, it can't happen in CM. Probably just fog of war so you couldn't tell what killed the other one, or maybe the Tiger used HE and the blast also took out the other Grayhound (they're open topped).

[Sergei]

Originally posted by bruceb:
one time a tiger took out two of my m8 greyhounds with one shot. I guess it went through the one then hit the other. I was a little miffed at first, but once I realized ‘yeah, it could really happen’ it was kind of cool.No, it can't happen in CM. Probably just fog of war so you couldn't tell what killed the other one, or maybe the Tiger used HE and the blast also took out the other Grayhound (they're open topped).

[Lord Harmes]

Playing Tottensontag two player pbem is pretty cool...
I'm playing it with Tooz right now.. I think we are about half way through, and it has been the most interesting battle i've ever had... so many tactical options! I think we might attempt to do a joint AAR for it... but it will be bloody long, and there have been three or four separate battles within the battle!
Anyone else played that one?

[Lord Harmes]

Playing Tottensontag two player pbem is pretty cool...
I'm playing it with Tooz right now.. I think we are about half way through, and it has been the most interesting battle i've ever had... so many tactical options! I think we might attempt to do a joint AAR for it... but it will be bloody long, and there have been three or four separate battles within the battle!
Anyone else played that one?

[flamingknives]

If you set off a sufficently large brew-up, the explosion is often sufficient to take out nearby light vehicles.

[flamingknives]

If you set off a sufficently large brew-up, the explosion is often sufficient to take out nearby light vehicles.

[Boo Radley]

Originally posted by flamingknives:
If you set off a sufficently large brew-up, the explosion is often sufficient to take out nearby light vehicles. Yeah, in a game I was playing a few months ago, my StuH42 took out two M-10s that were side by side with one shot.
My opponent was not amused.

[Boo Radley]

Originally posted by flamingknives:
If you set off a sufficently large brew-up, the explosion is often sufficient to take out nearby light vehicles. Yeah, in a game I was playing a few months ago, my StuH42 took out two M-10s that were side by side with one shot.
My opponent was not amused.

[With Clusters]

I've 're-patriated' a couple of my own surrendered units before, and they showed up as "unarmed". I'm not sure if they were MG units, so I don't know if that's a factor? What can be done with your own units that 'un-surrender', besides saving points at the end? No way to re-arm them, I suppose?

And I don't think there are fake FOW surrenders, as you should be able to give surrendered enemy units movement orders, so its certainly verifiable.

[With Clusters]

I've 're-patriated' a couple of my own surrendered units before, and they showed up as "unarmed". I'm not sure if they were MG units, so I don't know if that's a factor? What can be done with your own units that 'un-surrender', besides saving points at the end? No way to re-arm them, I suppose?

And I don't think there are fake FOW surrenders, as you should be able to give surrendered enemy units movement orders, so its certainly verifiable.

[Bushido]

I hate prisoners. Get in the way. I had an entire squad of Zeallander troops surrender because the were surrounded. Soon enough about 2 turns later the opened up on my command plt. Could't believe it. So now. When I get them-- If their close I will walk them into a building with a mortor, they won't "un-surrender," but if not, I walk them into a crossfire between me and the enemy. I know it sounds kind of Barabaric but it gets rid of a problem real quick.
-Tigerkommandant
Josef Strausse

[Bushido]

I hate prisoners. Get in the way. I had an entire squad of Zeallander troops surrender because the were surrounded. Soon enough about 2 turns later the opened up on my command plt. Could't believe it. So now. When I get them-- If their close I will walk them into a building with a mortor, they won't "un-surrender," but if not, I walk them into a crossfire between me and the enemy. I know it sounds kind of Barabaric but it gets rid of a problem real quick.
-Tigerkommandant
Josef Strausse

[Boo Radley]

I've never had a situation where surrendered troops suddenly "unsurrender" and open fire on my men. Never. In every case they have been unarmed and even when they get close enough to a command unit to "unsurrender", they've remained unarmed.
I just take them and walk them towards the back of the battlefield. If I have a crewman sitting around doing nothing, I aim them in his direction.
Never had a problem.

[Boo Radley]

I've never had a situation where surrendered troops suddenly "unsurrender" and open fire on my men. Never. In every case they have been unarmed and even when they get close enough to a command unit to "unsurrender", they've remained unarmed.
I just take them and walk them towards the back of the battlefield. If I have a crewman sitting around doing nothing, I aim them in his direction.
Never had a problem.

[BigDork]

Originally posted by Kobal2:
Uh ? I thought prisonners were unarmed whenever they surrendered ? I just had a crazy turn sent to me about 10 minutes ago where a SPW 251/1 drove up and over a Maxim crew that was just setting up. The crew is captured but less than two seconds later is uncaptured by my Universal Carrier that was sitting right there. And thankfully the crew still had the MG. I'd have been really POed if I'd lost that MG before it even fired a shot.

[BigDork]

Originally posted by Kobal2:
Uh ? I thought prisonners were unarmed whenever they surrendered ? I just had a crazy turn sent to me about 10 minutes ago where a SPW 251/1 drove up and over a Maxim crew that was just setting up. The crew is captured but less than two seconds later is uncaptured by my Universal Carrier that was sitting right there. And thankfully the crew still had the MG. I'd have been really POed if I'd lost that MG before it even fired a shot.

[With Clusters]

So now we have a couple bits of annecdotal evidence that MG units retain their weapon after surrendering, and can fire it again if they 'un-surrender'. Is this really the case? What about other kinds of units?

[With Clusters]

So now we have a couple bits of annecdotal evidence that MG units retain their weapon after surrendering, and can fire it again if they 'un-surrender'. Is this really the case? What about other kinds of units?

[BigDork]

Originally posted by With Clusters:
So now we have a couple bits of annecdotal evidence that MG units retain their weapon after surrendering, and can fire it again if they 'un-surrender'. Is this really the case? What about other kinds of units? Perhaps it depends on how long they've been captured for. Just recently I had a MG get captured and about 10 turns later I ended up rescuing them. They were unarmed. In my above post the MG crew had only been captured for 1 second or so. Perhaps that has something to do with it.

[BigDork]

Originally posted by With Clusters:
So now we have a couple bits of annecdotal evidence that MG units retain their weapon after surrendering, and can fire it again if they 'un-surrender'. Is this really the case? What about other kinds of units? Perhaps it depends on how long they've been captured for. Just recently I had a MG get captured and about 10 turns later I ended up rescuing them. They were unarmed. In my above post the MG crew had only been captured for 1 second or so. Perhaps that has something to do with it.

[bruceb]

You mean to tell me there's *no-way* an AP round from something like an 88 can go through one light armored vehicle and hit another one in CM? I'm disappointed to hear that. Doesn't seem like it'd be that hard to model... and such happenings were not unknown in Real Life, I believe?

[bruceb]

You mean to tell me there's *no-way* an AP round from something like an 88 can go through one light armored vehicle and hit another one in CM? I'm disappointed to hear that. Doesn't seem like it'd be that hard to model... and such happenings were not unknown in Real Life, I believe?

[MrSpkr]

Originally posted by Boo Radley:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by flamingknives:
If you set off a sufficently large brew-up, the explosion is often sufficient to take out nearby light vehicles. Yeah, in a game I was playing a few months ago, my StuH42 took out two M-10s that were side by side with one shot.
My opponent was not amused. </font>[/QUOTE]That wasn't due to a large brew-up as much as it was due to a HUGE HE round (StuH's have a big gun that pretty much only fires HE) going off near two tanks with open tops.

You can get the same effect by parking three or four Priests close to one another, then having one area fire into the ground (insert Catholic joke here).

Steve

[MrSpkr]

Originally posted by Boo Radley:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by flamingknives:
If you set off a sufficently large brew-up, the explosion is often sufficient to take out nearby light vehicles. Yeah, in a game I was playing a few months ago, my StuH42 took out two M-10s that were side by side with one shot.
My opponent was not amused. </font>[/QUOTE]That wasn't due to a large brew-up as much as it was due to a HUGE HE round (StuH's have a big gun that pretty much only fires HE) going off near two tanks with open tops.

You can get the same effect by parking three or four Priests close to one another, then having one area fire into the ground (insert Catholic joke here).

Steve

[Boo Radley]

Originally posted by MrSpkr:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Boo Radley:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by flamingknives:
If you set off a sufficently large brew-up, the explosion is often sufficient to take out nearby light vehicles. Yeah, in a game I was playing a few months ago, my StuH42 took out two M-10s that were side by side with one shot.
My opponent was not amused. </font>[/QUOTE]That wasn't due to a large brew-up as much as it was due to a HUGE HE round (StuH's have a big gun that pretty much only fires HE) going off near two tanks with open tops.

You can get the same effect by parking three or four Priests close to one another, then having one area fire into the ground (insert Catholic joke here).

Steve </font>[/QUOTE]I remember that I nailed one of the TDs with a direct hit and didn't even see the other one until a turn or two later when it suddenly appeared, abandoned.
I was quite impressed.

[Boo Radley]

Originally posted by MrSpkr:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Boo Radley:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by flamingknives:
If you set off a sufficently large brew-up, the explosion is often sufficient to take out nearby light vehicles. Yeah, in a game I was playing a few months ago, my StuH42 took out two M-10s that were side by side with one shot.
My opponent was not amused. </font>[/QUOTE]That wasn't due to a large brew-up as much as it was due to a HUGE HE round (StuH's have a big gun that pretty much only fires HE) going off near two tanks with open tops.

You can get the same effect by parking three or four Priests close to one another, then having one area fire into the ground (insert Catholic joke here).

Steve </font>[/QUOTE]I remember that I nailed one of the TDs with a direct hit and didn't even see the other one until a turn or two later when it suddenly appeared, abandoned.
I was quite impressed.

[Falcon988]

Not long ago I was playing a scenario where I commanded an American defense in Noville shortly after the Battle of the Bulge began. Long story short the Germans ran right over us and it turned into a massive route. At one point one of my squads was cut off and surrounded by tanks so they surrendered. Not too long later they took of running towards my lines. Unsurrendered as you all call it. so yes I have seen this occur. The squad was fired upon by the Germans but made it and joined up with one of my company HQ's.

They were all killed less than five turns later but that's another story.

[Falcon988]

Not long ago I was playing a scenario where I commanded an American defense in Noville shortly after the Battle of the Bulge began. Long story short the Germans ran right over us and it turned into a massive route. At one point one of my squads was cut off and surrounded by tanks so they surrendered. Not too long later they took of running towards my lines. Unsurrendered as you all call it. so yes I have seen this occur. The squad was fired upon by the Germans but made it and joined up with one of my company HQ's.

They were all killed less than five turns later but that's another story.

[willbell]

I've been dying to tell this story for years.

I downloaded the first CMBO Demo and played the scenario with the tanks. One of my (American) squads got around those trees to the right pretty quickly and caught a German squad off guard, while pretty much on the run. They cut the Germans down as they advanced.

The last German stands up and raises his hands. I swear he said surrender in German, and one of the Americans shot him. It was a single shot, and down went the German. I've always wondered if that was an easter egg in the demo or what? Never had a similar type of incident since then.

That demo was life altering!

[willbell]

I've been dying to tell this story for years.

I downloaded the first CMBO Demo and played the scenario with the tanks. One of my (American) squads got around those trees to the right pretty quickly and caught a German squad off guard, while pretty much on the run. They cut the Germans down as they advanced.

The last German stands up and raises his hands. I swear he said surrender in German, and one of the Americans shot him. It was a single shot, and down went the German. I've always wondered if that was an easter egg in the demo or what? Never had a similar type of incident since then.

That demo was life altering!

[Kobal2]

Never seen "Saving Private Ryan" ? smile.gif

- I wonder what he said...
- "Look ! I just washed for dinner !"

[Kobal2]

Never seen "Saving Private Ryan" ? smile.gif

- I wonder what he said...
- "Look ! I just washed for dinner !"

[willbell]

Exactly!

I used to know the word for I surrender in German, but I have forgotten it. The original CM used it, I don't think CMAK does.

[willbell]

Exactly!

I used to know the word for I surrender in German, but I have forgotten it. The original CM used it, I don't think CMAK does.

[Carl Puppchen]

I played a desert battle (night) in CMAK as germans and my men in a trench surrendered to enemy tanks and infantry. But I had men hiding in brush in front of the trench. When my opponent walked my guys off the board they walked right into my hidden guys and I got them back under control. At this point they were all unarmed and I used them as regular troops to try to hold an objective.

I have also seen HE rounds take out large numbers of vehicles - 5 crowded half tracks from an 88mm Tiger shell in one instance (it was a city).

I also setup an 88mm gun behind a building and my opponent "rubbled" it. The rubble fell into the adjacent hex and took out my gun. I was angry - it was the key element of my defense!

I also blew up a priest in cmbo by shooting at adjacent infantry - the kicker was in the "kills" section it said 1 priest!!

[Carl Puppchen]

I played a desert battle (night) in CMAK as germans and my men in a trench surrendered to enemy tanks and infantry. But I had men hiding in brush in front of the trench. When my opponent walked my guys off the board they walked right into my hidden guys and I got them back under control. At this point they were all unarmed and I used them as regular troops to try to hold an objective.

I have also seen HE rounds take out large numbers of vehicles - 5 crowded half tracks from an 88mm Tiger shell in one instance (it was a city).

I also setup an 88mm gun behind a building and my opponent "rubbled" it. The rubble fell into the adjacent hex and took out my gun. I was angry - it was the key element of my defense!

I also blew up a priest in cmbo by shooting at adjacent infantry - the kicker was in the "kills" section it said 1 priest!!

[GoofyStance]

If you order prisoners to move closer to, or behind, your forces, do the prisoners contribute to borg spotting?

[GoofyStance]

If you order prisoners to move closer to, or behind, your forces, do the prisoners contribute to borg spotting?

[junk2drive]

ooh never thought of surrendered troops spotting for their own side, some one know the answer?

[junk2drive]

ooh never thought of surrendered troops spotting for their own side, some one know the answer?

[Lithuanian]

They do briefly it seems, but then they just disappear.

[Lithuanian]

They do briefly it seems, but then they just disappear.

[Spotless]

Speaking of Borg spotting, I wonder if CMXX will feature "In command" or units with radios providing spotting only? I suppose if the player's knowledge of the battlefield were tied to the highest ranking officer on the field, this might be possible. That way, the player only sees what troops can report. It would certainly make you keep those COs alive if your victory/defeat rested on them being alive.

Basically you could have a "god mode" game like CMBO/BB/AK, and a "limited mode" where the AI would take over if your designated CO unit were destroyed, and only units in command/contact with the CO provide spotting.

[Spotless]

Speaking of Borg spotting, I wonder if CMXX will feature "In command" or units with radios providing spotting only? I suppose if the player's knowledge of the battlefield were tied to the highest ranking officer on the field, this might be possible. That way, the player only sees what troops can report. It would certainly make you keep those COs alive if your victory/defeat rested on them being alive.

Basically you could have a "god mode" game like CMBO/BB/AK, and a "limited mode" where the AI would take over if your designated CO unit were destroyed, and only units in command/contact with the CO provide spotting.

[Sergei]

Spotless, I would think that is unlikely solution to the problem. It would necessitate the TacAI to be able to react to the information hidden from the player in the way a human would, but that would be just asking too much from the AI.

[Sergei]

Spotless, I would think that is unlikely solution to the problem. It would necessitate the TacAI to be able to react to the information hidden from the player in the way a human would, but that would be just asking too much from the AI.

[Rabidbvr]

Hello one and all

While on the topic of surrenderd troops i can understand troops getting back to there own due to the ebband flow of the battle...but as for walking around with no weapons ? i know its a game but many troops remanned A/T guns or took the place of wounded its a shame you can not re crew an abandoned gun... i can understand a knocked out gun is us but you do get abandoned equipment as well...

happy hunting..

[Rabidbvr]

Hello one and all

While on the topic of surrenderd troops i can understand troops getting back to there own due to the ebband flow of the battle...but as for walking around with no weapons ? i know its a game but many troops remanned A/T guns or took the place of wounded its a shame you can not re crew an abandoned gun... i can understand a knocked out gun is us but you do get abandoned equipment as well...

happy hunting..

[Dandelion]

Hi all

There is no "re-crew" function in the CM engine. The lack of which has been hotly debated. If a squad loses a weapon, the weapon disappears. The game engine does not keep track of where or if machineguns are lying around.

However, exception is made for POW. Weapons magically re-materialise when they "un-surrender". They do not pick up any weapons and need not return to a point where they lost them, weapons simply materialise in the soldiers hands.

So former POW do open up on their former captors.

This was explained by a BFC representative in a thread way back. I am too lazy to go look for it myself smile.gif


Cheerio
Dandelion

[Dandelion]

Hi all

There is no "re-crew" function in the CM engine. The lack of which has been hotly debated. If a squad loses a weapon, the weapon disappears. The game engine does not keep track of where or if machineguns are lying around.

However, exception is made for POW. Weapons magically re-materialise when they "un-surrender". They do not pick up any weapons and need not return to a point where they lost them, weapons simply materialise in the soldiers hands.

So former POW do open up on their former captors.

This was explained by a BFC representative in a thread way back. I am too lazy to go look for it myself smile.gif


Cheerio
Dandelion

[Kobal2]

Wow, didn't know that, I always assumed POWs to become some kind of dead weight, only worth the points they give, and so I never made much efforts to secure them... I'll have to be more careful.

[Kobal2]

Wow, didn't know that, I always assumed POWs to become some kind of dead weight, only worth the points they give, and so I never made much efforts to secure them... I'll have to be more careful.

[willbell]

In terms of sighting only enemies in command, or any other borg sighting type of issues, you have to keep in mind the abstraction inherent in CM. You are not playing the commander only, or just the troops, you are playing both. Sometimes you are moving squads, from the squad’s point of view, sometimes you are moving platoons and companies from a commander's point of view. So there is no way to model sightings accurately, you either know too much for a captain, or too little for a lieutenant. The way they have it set up is to just maximize the fun and intrigue inherent in the WWII battlefield, and to do it in such a way that it feels realistic. But you will always be able to find some kind of logical contradiction due to the necessary game abstraction.

[willbell]

In terms of sighting only enemies in command, or any other borg sighting type of issues, you have to keep in mind the abstraction inherent in CM. You are not playing the commander only, or just the troops, you are playing both. Sometimes you are moving squads, from the squad’s point of view, sometimes you are moving platoons and companies from a commander's point of view. So there is no way to model sightings accurately, you either know too much for a captain, or too little for a lieutenant. The way they have it set up is to just maximize the fun and intrigue inherent in the WWII battlefield, and to do it in such a way that it feels realistic. But you will always be able to find some kind of logical contradiction due to the necessary game abstraction.

[CombinedArms]

Speaking of weird happenings, I just had a strange one in a PBEM with a Panther and a Stuart shooting at each other through a large light building. Both tanks were right up against the building on opposite sides and the building had heavy ** damage but was still standing. (Needless to say, the Stuart lost, though he scored several non-lethal hits before being knocked out) I'd never seen that before and thought it was impossible but maybe because of the heavy damage there were openings in the building that the tanks could shoot through???

[CombinedArms]

Speaking of weird happenings, I just had a strange one in a PBEM with a Panther and a Stuart shooting at each other through a large light building. Both tanks were right up against the building on opposite sides and the building had heavy ** damage but was still standing. (Needless to say, the Stuart lost, though he scored several non-lethal hits before being knocked out) I'd never seen that before and thought it was impossible but maybe because of the heavy damage there were openings in the building that the tanks could shoot through???

[Martyr]

I've seen troops shot down upon surrendering on several occasions. Every instance I can recall involves a unit throwing up its hands and being shot a second or two later. It seems that CM (intentionally or not) models a lag between the act of surrendering and the victor's decision to stop firing. This actually seems very realistic!

[Martyr]

I've seen troops shot down upon surrendering on several occasions. Every instance I can recall involves a unit throwing up its hands and being shot a second or two later. It seems that CM (intentionally or not) models a lag between the act of surrendering and the victor's decision to stop firing. This actually seems very realistic!

[Carl Puppchen]

I haven't had my CMAK troops "rematerialize" their weapons. I had a recent HMG crew that had been captured that I was able to bring back under my control and they did not have their weapons for the remainder of the game. They were "unarmed". Just my experience.

[Carl Puppchen]

I haven't had my CMAK troops "rematerialize" their weapons. I had a recent HMG crew that had been captured that I was able to bring back under my control and they did not have their weapons for the remainder of the game. They were "unarmed". Just my experience.

[CombinedArms]

I haven't read the prior thread on captured units and their weapons, but here's my guess--that captured units can recover their weapons if they're quickly uncaptured and in the same spot where they surrendered. This would make sense...they threw down their weapons, then promptly picked them up again. This would be mostly likely to happen in a fluid situation with opposing forces mixed up in close promixity.

I've found the best thing to do with captured units, once I've gotten control of them is to simply march them off to the rear. I don't worry about guarding them, just give them a long move order back to a safe place or even off the board. I never have any trouble with unguarded prisoners as long as they're far from the front.

[CombinedArms]

I haven't read the prior thread on captured units and their weapons, but here's my guess--that captured units can recover their weapons if they're quickly uncaptured and in the same spot where they surrendered. This would make sense...they threw down their weapons, then promptly picked them up again. This would be mostly likely to happen in a fluid situation with opposing forces mixed up in close promixity.

I've found the best thing to do with captured units, once I've gotten control of them is to simply march them off to the rear. I don't worry about guarding them, just give them a long move order back to a safe place or even off the board. I never have any trouble with unguarded prisoners as long as they're far from the front.

[JonS]

Originally posted by CombinedArms:
Speaking of weird happenings, I just had a strange one in a PBEM with a Panther and a Stuart shooting at each other through a large light building. Both tanks were right up against the building on opposite sides and the building had heavy ** damage but was still standing. (Needless to say, the Stuart lost, though he scored several non-lethal hits before being knocked out) I'd never seen that before and thought it was impossible but maybe because of the heavy damage there were openings in the building that the tanks could shoot through??? No, there is an area around bulldings that can been see from the far side. Typically it is quite small (i.e., only extends a short distance out from the building), but it is not affected by the range at which the observer is viewing from.

In a recent PBEM the weirdness of this became apparent. I had an ATG several hundred metres away which was able to shoot through the building at a tank parked hard up against it, while the target tank could not see the gun. In fact, the tank couldn't see more than a few metres beyond the far side of the building in the direction of the gun.

This is totally counter-intuitive. An obsever close to an obstacle should be able to see through and beyond it quite well, while an observer far away shoulnd't be able to see very far past the 'near' face of it.

The only mitigating factor was that the gun had watched to tank move into position behind the building, so I can sort-of rationalise that 'he knew where it was'. The bright targetting line indicates that that wasn't what was going on though.

Regards
JonS

[ June 07, 2004, 10:38 PM: Message edited by: JonS ]

[JonS]

Originally posted by CombinedArms:
Speaking of weird happenings, I just had a strange one in a PBEM with a Panther and a Stuart shooting at each other through a large light building. Both tanks were right up against the building on opposite sides and the building had heavy ** damage but was still standing. (Needless to say, the Stuart lost, though he scored several non-lethal hits before being knocked out) I'd never seen that before and thought it was impossible but maybe because of the heavy damage there were openings in the building that the tanks could shoot through??? No, there is an area around bulldings that can been see from the far side. Typically it is quite small (i.e., only extends a short distance out from the building), but it is not affected by the range at which the observer is viewing from.

In a recent PBEM the weirdness of this became apparent. I had an ATG several hundred metres away which was able to shoot through the building at a tank parked hard up against it, while the target tank could not see the gun. In fact, the tank couldn't see more than a few metres beyond the far side of the building in the direction of the gun.

This is totally counter-intuitive. An obsever close to an obstacle should be able to see through and beyond it quite well, while an observer far away shoulnd't be able to see very far past the 'near' face of it.

The only mitigating factor was that the gun had watched to tank move into position behind the building, so I can sort-of rationalise that 'he knew where it was'. The bright targetting line indicates that that wasn't what was going on though.

Regards
JonS

[ June 07, 2004, 10:38 PM: Message edited by: JonS ]

[junk2drive]

back to prisoner subject, i just had my troops captured. they disappeared, then reappeared from time to time. never did i see the enemy troops. i dont think captured friendlys spot for you. one of my caps wandered away from his capturers and away from the battle. or he was ordered to by the a.i.
fyi

[junk2drive]

back to prisoner subject, i just had my troops captured. they disappeared, then reappeared from time to time. never did i see the enemy troops. i dont think captured friendlys spot for you. one of my caps wandered away from his capturers and away from the battle. or he was ordered to by the a.i.
fyi

[SpitfireXI]

Last night one of my squads dissapeared and then reapeared to capture a flag. I clicked on them and it mentioned they were unarmed. Despite that they not only captured the flag and captured a platoon HQ. I think the fact that a Matilda rolled right by 'unsurrenered' them and allowed them to capture the flag and enemy troops. But still really cool and strange.

[SpitfireXI]

Last night one of my squads dissapeared and then reapeared to capture a flag. I clicked on them and it mentioned they were unarmed. Despite that they not only captured the flag and captured a platoon HQ. I think the fact that a Matilda rolled right by 'unsurrenered' them and allowed them to capture the flag and enemy troops. But still really cool and strange.

[Sergei]

Did the unarmed squad actually get credit for capturing the enemies, or did the Matilda do that (you can see this in the 'kill stats')?

[Sergei]

Did the unarmed squad actually get credit for capturing the enemies, or did the Matilda do that (you can see this in the 'kill stats')?

[Falcon988]

Originally posted by Martyr:
I've seen troops shot down upon surrendering on several occasions. Every instance I can recall involves a unit throwing up its hands and being shot a second or two later. It seems that CM (intentionally or not) models a lag between the act of surrendering and the victor's decision to stop firing. This actually seems very realistic! Yea I've seen that many times myself and agree that it's realistic. Generally happens when a unit tries to surrender under a hail of gunfire. The last time was during a battle against the British where one of my Halftracks bravely, but futiley, charged in behind the British infantry and starts shooting them up with its machine gun. It was targeted by practically every British soldier and tank in its vicinity and was soon abandoned. There were probably hundreds of bullets heading their way when the crew jumped out and surrendered so they were all killed instantly.

[Falcon988]

Originally posted by Martyr:
I've seen troops shot down upon surrendering on several occasions. Every instance I can recall involves a unit throwing up its hands and being shot a second or two later. It seems that CM (intentionally or not) models a lag between the act of surrendering and the victor's decision to stop firing. This actually seems very realistic! Yea I've seen that many times myself and agree that it's realistic. Generally happens when a unit tries to surrender under a hail of gunfire. The last time was during a battle against the British where one of my Halftracks bravely, but futiley, charged in behind the British infantry and starts shooting them up with its machine gun. It was targeted by practically every British soldier and tank in its vicinity and was soon abandoned. There were probably hundreds of bullets heading their way when the crew jumped out and surrendered so they were all killed instantly.

[Spears]

In night battles put capturd men just infront of ur lines of defence when enemy advance they open up on there helpless comradews giving away themselfs and gettin rid of the problem smile.gif works both times i tried it.

[Spears]

In night battles put capturd men just infront of ur lines of defence when enemy advance they open up on there helpless comradews giving away themselfs and gettin rid of the problem smile.gif works both times i tried it.

[Probert]

In my limited experience I have learned a bit about taking and holding prisoners. You must have one semi-effective unit near a group of prisoners. Do not let large clumps of prisoners gather together. These two steps will go along way toward limiting breakouts by your enemy.

Other option is a couple rounds of mortar fire on a group you think might be getting into too much of a free area.

[Probert]

In my limited experience I have learned a bit about taking and holding prisoners. You must have one semi-effective unit near a group of prisoners. Do not let large clumps of prisoners gather together. These two steps will go along way toward limiting breakouts by your enemy.

Other option is a couple rounds of mortar fire on a group you think might be getting into too much of a free area.