Weather Tweaks

[Ex Bellator]

After more playing of this wonderful game this weekend I notice a couple of oddities.

One battle was shrouded in very Thick Fog, but the weather condidtions were 'Windy'. Obviously the two should be mutually exclusive.

Also the ground conditions were invariably Damp or worse. One Summer Mid-Day QB in particular was in scorching heat (the thermometer was off the scale!) under a brilliant blue sky. Yet the ground was still Damp.

This just exacerbates the Bogging bug as well as being very unlikely. I really do like the temperature effects, it was so hot that my 'Unfit' troops collapsed Exhausted for an age after just one modest 'Advance' order.

Can these be tweaked? Can the weather conditions be more inter-related to each other?

[L4Pilot]

... it was so hot that my 'Unfit' troops collapsed Exhausted for an age after just one modest 'Advance' order.It was so hot...the trees were chasing the mine-dogs.

Both of these sugestions sound reasonable. Though with the Mid-Day Summer QB, was it related to zone? I could see how the ground might be damp, even on a hot summer day in the northern or Finnish terrain zones.

[ October 13, 2002, 05:54 PM: Message edited by: L4Pilot ]

[Le Tondu]

Originally posted by Rex_Bellator:
After more playing of this wonderful game this weekend I notice a couple of oddities.

One battle was shrouded in very Thick Fog, but the weather condidtions were 'Windy'. Obviously the two should be mutually exclusive.

Also the ground conditions were invariably Damp or worse. One Summer Mid-Day QB in particular was in scorching heat (the thermometer was off the scale!) under a brilliant blue sky. Yet the ground was still Damp.

This just exacerbates the Bogging bug as well as being very unlikely. I really do like the temperature effects, it was so hot that my 'Unfit' troops collapsed Exhausted for an age after just one modest 'Advance' order.

Can these be tweaked? Can the weather conditions be more inter-related to each other?I'm with Rex here. Dry ground conditions seem to be extremely rare.

[Le Tondu]

Uh oh.

I just did two tests and I picked August (AND June) 1943 with the South region and temperature as Hot (at mid-day) and I was still able to get snow on the ground with snow falling.

**Added a little later: Snow and Still wind was chosen.

[ October 13, 2002, 05:51 PM: Message edited by: Le Tondu ]

[Ex Bellator]

FWIW my high temperature QB was in the Central Region.

I definitely think that the weather routine needs some tweaking, eg. If Fog then wind = Still, If Hot then ground = Dry.

In a game that puts the emphasis on realism this is quite important IMHO.

[ October 14, 2002, 08:25 AM: Message edited by: Rex_Bellator ]

[PeterX]

If Hot then ground = Dry What if the sun comes out right after a shower? Huh?

I just wish they'd fix the Fog so it has some reasonable concealment benefits. Now you can see out 750m. But there shouldn't be any wind with it.

[aka_tom_w]

Originally posted by Rex_Bellator:
FWIW my high temperature QB was in the Central Region.

I definitely think that the weather routine needs some tweaking, eg. If Fog then wind = Still, If Hot then ground = Dry.

In a game that puts the emphasis on realism this is quite important IMHO.Maybe in the patch?

where is that thread "What should be in the Patch??"

perhaps this suggestion should be added to that thread as BFC and Steve was following it and posting there. smile.gif

-tom w

[rune]

Guys, these conditions can happen. No one has ever been in a rain storm during summer when it is over 100 out? I know I have, and the ground can indeed be damp and the temperature be hot.

Living in Chicago, ever see a fog roll in? How about a morning mist in a light wind? Seen both.

These conditions can happen, but should not be the norm. If you are seeing it all the time, then there is a problem. Also, if hot and you get snow, could be a problem.

Rune

[Andrew H.]

I don't think that hot weather and damp ground are mutually exclusive at all; I think it's a kind of common combination.

I'm less sure about fog and wind; in the real world, fog tends to be around at dawn, and the wind tends to be calmer at dawn (and dusk), so I don't think it's a common combination for that reason. But if you have a bunch of fog and it suddenly becomes windy, the fog is not going to instantly vanish.

And in the mountains, you get fog and wind all the time.

[jonp]

If you have never seen a hot day with a damp ground, I invite you to FL in July or Aug. It rains almost daily for a few hours and then the sun comes out and the humidity is so high that no water evaporates from the ground.

jonp

[Ex Bellator]

*sigh*

I never said that Hot weather and Damp ground couldn't happen, so back away fanboys :D

Sure it may happen, but it is far more likely that if you have very hot weather and a clear sky then DRY ground will be underfoot. Hot dusty summers on the Steppe are something I have read about, I'm not interested in obscure weather happenings in various totally irrelevant parts of the world thankyou, or slight chances that we have just attacked following a sudden mid-day rainstorm on a brilliant summers day.

It is an example together with the Fog and Wind and now the Snow and Hot example of how the current system can produce weather types and effects which don't make sense. Let me say that in the Hot/Damp scenario it was VERY hot and in the Fog/Wind scenario it was VERY windy.

It seems obvious at the moment that ground, sky, and wind conditions are frequently at variance with one another, and I would like a comment from the BFC boys as to if the weather engine in the game can be made to be inter-dependent and more logical. No more 'I once saw Snow in July on Mars' posts please.

When I get home tonite I'll run a test on how often Damp ground gets put into very hot scenarios. Should prove interesting.

Heck, I must be getting old, as I'm spending all this time talking about the weather :rolleyes:

[BlackVoid]

There is a way more important issue regarding weather. Snowy ground without snowfall!!!!
This cannot be set in QBs at the moment, in my eye a major bug from CMBB.

[Le Tondu]

Originally posted by rune:
Guys, these conditions can happen. No one has ever been in a rain storm during summer when it is over 100 out? I know I have, and the ground can indeed be damp and the temperature be hot.

Living in Chicago, ever see a fog roll in? How about a morning mist in a light wind? Seen both.

These conditions can happen, but should not be the norm. If you are seeing it all the time, then there is a problem. Also, if hot and you get snow, could be a problem.

RuneAh, but does it snow in Chicago when it is 100 degrees out?

Being originally from Cleveland, Ohio I can safely say --no it doesn't. It doesn't do that anywhere or anytime -except consistently in CMBB.

I just did ten tests where "Hot" and "Snow" were mutually selected on the QB parameter page and that is what I got. A HOT day with snow on the ground and snow falling. Not realistic at all.

Look, I'm not saying that that a whole lot is needed to fix this. It is just something that should've been caught -that's all. I'm sure that a minor tweak is all that is needed.

[BlackVoid]

I mean a major BUG carried over from CMBO.

[BlackVoid]

Ok, you can have snowfall in hot weather. You can have snowfall in cold weather.
Thats a bit stupid, but I can live with that.
But I CANNOT HAVE SNOW ON THE GROUND IN WINTER!@#$%^%
IN RUSSIA!!!!!

C'mon. This is downright ridiculous.

[Ex Bellator]

Ok, test results so far (the hoops you guys make me go through - and I'm bored already) show the following.

You will NEVER see Dry ground conditions in any of the CMBB theaters, at any time period, or in any type of terrain EXCEPT in the South theater. No matter how balmy the weather is and no matter how high the temperature is, in the Central, North, Finland regions the ground will always be Damp or worse. Send those Heavy Tanks South!

I wonder if anyone on these boards is from those regions, and can confirm that they have never seen Dry ground ;)

You can get all kinds of wind conditions in Thick Fog, right up to gale force.

Unlike Le Tondue I am not forcing the CMBB engine to match incompatible weather types. I just select Hot/Clear and the ground condition is calculated. Or I just select Thick Fog and Random wind.

I don't really mind if you can force the CMBB engine to make it Snow on a blazing Summers day. My concern is with Random weather settings, which are producing unrealistic combinations.

[ October 14, 2002, 01:56 PM: Message edited by: Rex_Bellator ]

[rune]

Hmm...let me look, yes I definitely said it, if you are getting snow and hot it could be a problem. So you ranted when I said it could be a problem. I already pointed the guys to this thread.

Next time try reading what I said. smile.gif

Rune

Originally posted by Le Tondu:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by rune:
Guys, these conditions can happen. No one has ever been in a rain storm during summer when it is over 100 out? I know I have, and the ground can indeed be damp and the temperature be hot.

Living in Chicago, ever see a fog roll in? How about a morning mist in a light wind? Seen both.

These conditions can happen, but should not be the norm. If you are seeing it all the time, then there is a problem. Also, if hot and you get snow, could be a problem.

RuneAh, but does it snow in Chicago when it is 100 degrees out?

Being originally from Cleveland, Ohio I can safely say --no it doesn't. It doesn't do that anywhere or anytime -except consistently in CMBB.

I just did ten tests where "Hot" and "Snow" were mutually selected on the QB parameter page and that is what I got. A HOT day with snow on the ground and snow falling. Not realistic at all.

Look, I'm not saying that that a whole lot is needed to fix this. It is just something that should've been caught -that's all. I'm sure that a minor tweak is all that is needed.</font>[/QUOTE]

[Agua]

Re: Fog w/ Wind

I live along the northern coast of the Gulf of Mexico. Thick fog and wind is not uncommon here at all. I haven't seen tropical storm force winds combined with fog, but definitely winds between 5-12 mph quite frequently.

[Madmatt]

This is an example of people complaining when we give them some freedom.

We do not restrict the weather when the player selects certain settings. So you CAN have HOT weather and snow but only if you selected those settings. Weather is so incredibly varied that we though it best to leave the player/sceanrio designer to combine pretty much anything they wanted so they could model as much as they could come up with, weather wise.

We have worked hard to make sure that the random settings will always result in possible weather combinations. If you see oddities with RANDOM settings then let us know but if you set them yourself than be advised that you can create some rather strange weather combos.

You CAN have snow on the ground without it snowing in the game but you have to use the editor for that. Its (ground condition) not an option for QB's though.

I'll look into the DAMP issue reported above.

Madmatt

[ October 14, 2002, 03:22 PM: Message edited by: Madmatt ]

[Ex Bellator]

Thanks Matt.

[BlackVoid]

Please MadMatt look into the NO SNOWY TERRRAIN bug pls as well.

[Le Tondu]

Hmmm.

I discovered the snow and Hot weather combination simply by accident. I didn't consciously choose for it to be that way. One was left over from the last time I chose it and then the other was chosen in a new QB.

Just as an axis player cannot get a King Tiger in 1941, I think that we ought to not be able to get snow when we've selected HOT weather -even by accident.

Yet, I will accept it and be more careful in the future.

[ October 14, 2002, 05:53 PM: Message edited by: Le Tondu ]

[tar]

One battle was shrouded in very Thick Fog, but the weather condidtions were 'Windy'. Obviously the two should be mutually exclusive.
Seconding the Gulf of Mexico comments, I will note that I have often seen fog rolling into Los Angeles (My 9th floor office has an ocean view :cool: ) very quickly. It can cover a mile in under five minutes sometimes.

It really surprised me at first, but we definitely get fog an d (relatively) windy conditions at the same time. I wonder if that is peculiar to sea-based fog, though. I suppose that the fog that forms overnight due to local cooling in depressions tends to dissipate with wind, however. -- I wonder what release of CM will have fog only in the low-lying areas? :D

Fog in the mountains I tend to think of as cloudy, so I see no conflict there.