Vosges1 Hell/Help???

[kverdon]

****SPOILERS**** BELOW

I've been playing a scenario named Vosges1. I've played a number of scenarios/opperations before this one and in my humble opinion this one is impossible for the allied player. You have about a Battatlion of Green infantry and Engineers 5 TD's and a M4 105. You also have 2 105 and 2 81mm mortars Arty spotters. Now the bad news. You are attacking accross a wooded valley and river. The Germans have the whole map mined, about 1 dozen road-blocks and some AT assets not to mention numerous pillboxes both on your and the far side of the river. The terrain and road blocks makes your armor fairly worthless. Just getting accross the single brigde across the river is an accomplishment given the German Arty and your green troops which will break at a twig snap. I've tried this about a dozen times. The first third had me wiped out by the German Arty before I even got across the river. The second third saw me getting shot apart getting across the river. The last third got me across the river but in no shape to face the defense in depth near the victory flags, which are at the complete rear of the map. I've laid down massive smoke screens to cover the river crossing but once across, your green troops are no match for the green/conscript defenders as your armor support is not able to move with you due to the terrain and roadblocks. Only once was I able to get about 2 1/2 platoons up the far hill to the Victory Flags but this still got me an Minor Axis Victory. This scenario is BRUTAL. It may be historically accurate but is quite painful for the Allied player to try. Actually its no fun at all. If anyone has gotten even so much as a draw out of this as the Allied player I'd like to hear from you.

thanks,

Kevin

[GonzoAttacker]

Kevin,

To be Fair I must say this is the most difficult scenario i have ever designed. It is accurate to the type of troops that fought in this sector and is actually a battle that was a stalemate.

Even as the scenario designer, i was only able to get one Draw and One minor Victory, after 5 defeats..
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Spoiler
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The key is not to send your engineers into the battle and to leave your Armor behind in support til you identify Targets across the ravine.. Engineers can take out mines along road to bridge and thereafter and your Armor then can cover once you have a bridgehead..

Then you KO GUNS, SMOKE BUNKERS, Wait for all reinforcments and make the dash across.

You Must split squads to find targets and move on tip-toes to Identify the above...

We have our playtest team playing this now, I am going to change some things on ALLIed side..But Axis side will still have same Compliment... This scenario is only Half the Battle, I Cut off the HiLL that is Behind the VLs....

If you want to play a more Fun Vosges battle play Banzai Hill as Allied vs. AI..
This is the 442RCT "Go For Broke"... Difficult Terrain again, But you have the forces Massed at the start, because they are ordered to Save the Texans, the Lost Battalion...

We are looking for playtesters for our team and if you are interested drop me an e-mail.


Michael "Gonzo" Gonzalez

[Olle Petersson]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GonzoAttacker:
It ... actually a battle that was a stalemate.

Even as the scenario designer, i was only able to get one Draw and One minor Victory, after 5 defeats...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Out of curiosity; How have you defined victory for this scenario compared to the historical outcome?

IMO the best way to handle historical scenarios is to define the historical outcome as a draw. Do better and you win, do worse and you lose.

Cheers
Olle

[kverdon]

Gonzo,

Well at least now I don't feel so bad. I did pretty much what you said in splittng squads down for scouts and in using the engineers to clear the mines on the start side of the river and then clear the mines on the bridge. I put down a massive smoke screen and charged across at two points. The biggest problem is that there simply isn't enough time to do this and get a force across the river in time to make an assault on the hill VL's. You need about another 5-10 turns for to have a real chance.

The other problem I have with the scanario is the placement of the re-inforcements, especially the first group. They just "beam-in" on the right flank of the start hill, in the open. Now the problem is that either 1). their sudden appearance in the open triggers the German AI to drop arty on them, disrupting them and anyone else in the area or 2). They arrive in the middle of a current German Barrage. The only way to avoid this is to time a smoke screen as to their arrival. This works and gives you a nice force to dash across the right hand fords but this seems "gamey" and, of course, would not be an option to a first time player. It would be better to deploy the re-inforcements further to the rear and leave their move to the front up to the player. This would mean extending the scenario out about 3 turns but would feel better. I might like to try this scenario again in a while when you make your tweeks to it. I can't in the meantime as I deleted the scenario in frustration.

Thanks,

Kevin

[ 05-07-2001: Message edited by: kverdon ]