Artillery, like in Panzer General would be awesome.

[UgediBugedi]

One thing I would love in SC2 is artillery, like in Panzer General.

I will definetely buy this game when it comes out.

[Exel]

Yes. Artillery was something I missed in SC1. Though I realize they are incorporated in the Armies, it would still be nice to have them in at some level.

[jon_j_rambo]

Ever hear of rockets?

[Exel]

Rockets aren't the same. It only increases the misery to have rockets in but not real arty, the queen of the battlefield. :(

[jon_j_rambo]

Yeah, but the rockets of SC play like artillery.

[Kuniworth]

Originally posted by jon_j_rambo:
Yeah, but the rockets of SC play like artillery. Yeah but the rocket unit should be an artillery-unit.

[jon_j_rambo]

Spliting hairs here.

[Kuniworth]

stop spliting hairs, just agree dammit. Compared to the influence in ww2 artillery should be represented more likely than rockets.

But to Hubert's defence, artillery was incorporated in army's and corps.

[Exel]

Maybe rockets could just be the final development step in artillery tech? You start with developing field guns and howitzers, end up with Nebelwerfers and Katyushas. smile.gif

[UgediBugedi]

I meant the strategy by having artillery. Like you place the artillery behind your units. Then when you attack the unit infront of artillery piece, the ground forces would get "support fire" from the artillery..

This enhances the strategy ALOT. Anyone who have played Panzer General should know what I mean.

[UgediBugedi]

Ofcourse the range of the artillery should be 1,2 or 3 tiles depending on what type of artillery unit one is using..

[Kuniworth]

No, artillery detachment was a part of the armies and corps. They should NOT be single units.

Likewise I don't agree on special rocket detachments.

This is a STRATEGIC game not a TACTICAL a la Panzer general II.

[Les the Sarge 9-1]

I don't want a separate counter for artillery, but I would like a new way to simulate artillery assets.

HQs should be able to direct artillery fire assets in some fashion.

Just assuming they are "incorporated" into the ground units is not good enough.

All the ground units are identical.

Artillery should be deployable as a resource in some fashion.

[Desert Dave]

As originally posted by Les the Sarge 9-1:

I don't want a separate counter for artillery, but I would like a new way to simulate artillery assets. And that is what you have! smile.gif

Infantry Weapons takes the place of anti-tank as the primary defining factor of Corps and Armies.

IOW, achievements in this research field will indicate what particular level your infantry is at.

A/T advances are "hidden" and gained and applied in the same way that long-range air is for Air Fleets.

Thus, you could have the VERY interesting possibility of a Panzer unit stumbling into a small group of Russian Corps, all of whom have some level of anti-tank advances, oh 1 or 2 or 3, with each being different... but you wouldn't know that until they suddenly blew your tracks off! :eek:

A kind of realistic, and very exciting... FoW.

So.

This category could be posited to include: Artillery and mortars, HMGs and all sorts of explosive devices, as might be used by ground pounders or... the combat engineers, such as the extremely nasty Flammenpanzerwagen!.

At this scale you probably don't need an artillery unit taking up a whole square, true?

If you did that for all the possible units, there would hardly be any room to maneuver. ;)

[Kelly's Heroes]

Maybe have arty be researchable, but not have it as a separate unit.

Instead, it could be used as an attachment to an army or corps unit. You would have to pay to upgrade that unit with the arty.

When the upgrade is done, a small "+" could be added to the counter, signifying it has arty support.

The same could be done for heavy armour. All armour could be medium tanks, but you could add heavy armour units to supplement the medium tanks.

Cheers!

[SeaMonkey]

With a flexible editor and icon modifications I'm sure you can make an artillery unit from the Rocket.

[Some_God]

Originally posted by Exel:
Maybe rockets could just be the final development step in artillery tech? You start with developing field guns and howitzers, end up with Nebelwerfers and Katyushas. smile.gif Best idea I have ever heard.

[Stellvertreter]

Hi,

if i look at the FAQ, the second screenshot shows an arty icon.....

http://www.battlefront.com/products/sc2/faq.html

[J P Wagner]

Originally posted by Stellvertreter:
Hi,

if i look at the FAQ, the second screenshot shows an arty icon.....

http://www.battlefront.com/products/sc2/faq.html There are artillery units present in the smaller operational campaigns that are included in the game. They are not present in the strategic game however.....

[Fire]

Besides how we handle artillery exactly in the game, one fact remains.
A special rocket icon is the worst thing in SC2. What impact did rockets (and i am talking about "strategic" rockets) as the V1 and V2 had in WW2, let me think.....none! So everybody that argues the way that artillery is inculded into the Corps/Army Icons, but rockets deserve a special icon taking up a whole HEX !!!!, well, everybody who argues that way should, in my opinion, find a better argument. ;)

Fireball

[Sombra]

Rockets are in because:

- They have been / area strategic weapon (alas not a terrible effective one still a nice pet project)
- The range of rockets is vastly superior then artillery.

Look at the scale of a sqare: 50 km ? Please show me mass deployment of artillerie in WW2 being able to shoot 100 km

[Desert Dave]

Well,
The good news is that you DO have an extra slot,

Which can be used to insert ANY sort
Of combat unit you might like
BETTER than V-1/2 type rockets.

IMO, artillery can work - why ever not?

You use grand imagination and suppose
That the arty unit is IN FACT closer
To the front lines,
And is merely "re-presented" at a distance
To reflect defensive (re)positioning
Which is very flexible,
Given the time scale... of weeks.

I can foresee ALL sorts of new!
Weapons introduced in mods,
Using that available slot.

All the attributes can be changed around,
Thanks to the unprecedented Editor provided! :cool:
_____________________________________

1) Recon units, as armored cars perhaps?

2) Commando types, SS, or US Rangers?

3) TAC or Naval bombers?

4) Destroyers or CL's for ASW instead of CA's?

5) Even, "ground-to-ground" rockets, as nebelwehrfer or Russian "truck-launched?"

6) Low-rated Garrison/Militia unit?
__________________________________________

This list would ONLY be a beginning, given the "SC design-group imagination," which would approach near... unlimited possibility?

Surely somebody out there is accomplished artist who can "paint" a new sprite or 2, or 9, for common use? smile.gif

[blackbellamy]

HQs should be able to direct artillery fire assets in some fashion. They do. Your HQ's give bonuses to selected units. Those units are the ones with extra artillery assets allocated to them.

[Fire]

@ Sombra.


"- They have been / area strategic weapon"

In which army in WW2? And please mention something else than the "incredible" strategic damage that was caused by that V1/V2. ;)

"(alas not a terrible effective one still a nice pet project)"

Thats right, nothing more than a pet project.


"- The range of rockets is vastly superior then artillery. "

Right, but why replace a weapon (rockets) that was never used, by a weapon that is included in the Army Scale? Means, no rockets, no artillery, no artillery, no rockets.

So I came to the conclusion that we have a free unit slot ;), which should be filled by something better than that. (I know i know, the Editor...DIY. But i am not that talented in painting)

Fire

[Comrade Trapp]

I agree, there is no need for a separate arty unit.

I would rather see an extra unit created for destroyers (so the entire Home Fleet doesn't have to be used to chase down a single submarine flotilla) and / or a low-rate militia/garrison unit.

[jon_j_rambo]

Nice point C-Trapp. Garrison units are needed.

[Liam]

Originally posted by SeaMonkey:
With a flexible editor and icon modifications I'm sure you can make an artillery unit from the Rocket. Very good idea, Artillery is very kewl. You'd have to have it able to level an entire 5 strength points for it to be effective against an enemy. That or make it affordable with some mobility. The Germans started '40 with good mobile Artillery, both on Tank Chasses(sp? and special designed trucks

[hellraiser]

Minor troops act as fine garrisons. Aside for garriosn duties, they don't have much use anyway smile.gif Or just buy some zero tech german corps for that.

[LampCord]

Originally posted by UgediBugedi:
Ofcourse the range of the artillery should be 1,2 or 3 tiles depending on what type of artillery unit one is using.. It would be unreasonable to have arty with a range > 1 hex on the scale of the main campaign.

In practice, the vast majority of arty in ww2 was used at ranges < 20 miles which I believe is less than 1 hex. Even the massive guns of the USS Iowa only had a range of about 26 miles and I'm guessing the effective range was far lower.

So in the large campaign, it really only makes sense to incorporate it in armies and corps.

OTOH, Rockets, at least the German V2's had a much longer range at the end of the war.

[Liam]

Artillery was Mobile, the time represented in SC2 is how many days per turn? Look how far mobile infantry or tanks move in just 1 movement, 200-400 miles in some cases it appears... That would be impossible in one go. Mobile Artillery, WW1 had more stationery Artillery. A Germany 88 could be setup in moments

part of Blitzkrieg.. a Halftrack can town an 88 at 25-35 MPH on a Road, 15-20 off road, even over mountains and through Marshes and the gune can be deployed and fired on a target likely further away than Infantry could target and likely as quickly as a Tank could get there if you're counting on Heavy Tanks like a Tiger that likely couldn't even navigate much through a marsh or rough terrain...weighing much more than Artillery

Originally posted by LampCord:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by UgediBugedi:
Ofcourse the range of the artillery should be 1,2 or 3 tiles depending on what type of artillery unit one is using.. It would be unreasonable to have arty with a range > 1 hex on the scale of the main campaign.

In practice, the vast majority of arty in ww2 was used at ranges < 20 miles which I believe is less than 1 hex. Even the massive guns of the USS Iowa only had a range of about 26 miles and I'm guessing the effective range was far lower.

So in the large campaign, it really only makes sense to incorporate it in armies and corps.

OTOH, Rockets, at least the German V2's had a much longer range at the end of the war. </font>[/QUOTE]

[ebitt]

The good news is that you DO have an extra slot,

Which can be used to insert ANY sort
Of combat unit you might like
BETTER than V-1/2 type rockets.Could you please elaborate on this extra slot. I can't find any open slot in the editor or any mention in the documentation

Thanks

[fantomas]

Yes, what is this "extra slot" ? :eek:

[SeaMonkey]

CRAP!!!! Its no wonder I have no hair left.

Listen closely....that's it put your ears in close proximity to the CPU speakers....ready!!!!

Research rockets to level 5, or less for that matter, but get them some range, IMO 3 is good enough. Research motorization to level 2.

Sprinkle with a little SC2 magic dust(your imagination), or change the icon if you must.

What have you got............anyone.......Liam...please elaborate before I have "The Big One".

Did I mention, this time(SC2), they are transportable.

[Liam]

Originally posted by SeaMonkey:
CRAP!!!! Its no wonder I have no hair left.

Listen closely....that's it put your ears in close proximity to the CPU speakers....ready!!!!

Research rockets to level 5, or less for that matter, but get them some range, IMO 3 is good enough. Research motorization to level 2.

Sprinkle with a little SC2 magic dust(your imagination), or change the icon if you must.

What have you got............anyone.......Liam...please elaborate before I have "The Big One".

Did I mention, this time(SC2), they are transportable. Kick ass Mobile Artillery Unit...Hell, Katusha Rocket Kickass SOBs

[Blashy]

Originally posted by jon_j_rambo:
Nice point C-Trapp. Garrison units are needed. You can create those already, just permit countries to buy partisan units, they can't have any tech, have low values, but they would make for good "sit on city" Garrison units.

You could have a problem of too many units. Imagine Germany not having to use Corps for Garrison duty and use those bodies to fight in Russia.

I personally find the balance good now, Germany can get "streched" thin in manpower if it overextends, something that was not an issue in SC.

[SeaMonkey]

Thank you my good Liam, well said.

Now the rest of you "students", get out there and build some, deploy some, use some, and report back to HQ for debriefing.

[ebitt]

Originally posted by Blashy:
You can create those already, just permit countries to buy partisan units, they can't have any tech, have low values, but they would make for good "sit on city" Garrison units.Germany, for example, can't buy a partisan nor can it be added to the production queue in the editor. Have I missed something?
:confused:

[Dragonheart]

The creation of volksturm units as soon as russia enters german soil would be a nice feature comparing with partisans somewhere else.

[Desert Dave]

Could you please elaborate on this extra slot. I can't find any open slot in the editor or any mention in the documentation
ebitt (and fantomas),

The "extra slot" would be available

**IF you decide NOT to use one of the other units that is already in the game.

There is not an empty slot provided.

Say, you don't want "rockets"... here is what you would do

[... and from now on, this kind of explanation should be placed in the new! forum thread which deals with all manner of "modding"]

1) You will have a "modded" campaign folder, since all newly created scenarios or campagins have to be re-named

2) First, change Campaign "Configuration Settings" to the following:

a) Change - "Custom Localization = 1 (... from "0")
b) Change - "Custom Bitmaps = 1

3) You will now have a SEPARATE "Bitmaps" file in your modded campagn folder, with ONLY the sprites for artillery or Destroyers or home milita or whatever new game piece you might prefer.

4) You will now have a SEPARATE "localization text document" with ONLY the Unit ID changed to whatever the NAME of your new unit is (IE Rockets= Doom Gun ;) )

As said, any further questions, please post in the new Forum designed explicitly for ALL manner of mods... thanks! smile.gif

[Iriemon]

Kuniworth:
No, artillery detachment was a part of the armies and corps. They should NOT be single units.

Likewise I don't agree on special rocket detachments.

This is a STRATEGIC game not a TACTICAL a la Panzer general II. Concur. Artillery didn't have a 50 mile range. It is properly abstracted into Army unit capability.