Will the blast wave make a comeback?

[Elmar Bijlsma]

I really do hope so, it really looked good on the high powered guns and large caliber expolsions. It might have been dropped on my list of things to add because it didnt really add to gameplay but boy it sure added to the experience, seeing 8inch shells howling in and creating those neat looking blast waves. Not to speak of the 14inch shells. OH BOY! Sure, it looked a bit naff on 2 inch shells, hand grenades and collapsing buildings but if its not too much bother put them back in for large calibre explosions and large calibre/high powered muzzle blasts!

Please?

Pretty please? :D

[Thomm]

I am all for it!

Moreover, I do not agree that it does not serve a gameplay purpose: after all, the blast wave can be used to visualize the blast value, or the lethal radius and thus convey some information!

Maybe it should be restricted to an expanding ring of polygons, which is fading out at its top, rather than a whole semi-sphere, though!

Best regards,
Thomm

[MikeyD]

Hmmmm....
If I recall an ANCIENT response to this question, BFC (Matt in particular?) hated those blast waves and were happy to see them leave. Maybe as a compromise they can be reserved for really really BIG explosions... or instead really really LITTLE mortar rounds, which I have a hard time spotting.

[Bogdan]

Let's consider the shockwaves more as a tool for the player, than an eye-candy thingy. ShW are usefull to spot small caliber rounds like mortar, falling on the battlefield...

As in another thread, I mentionned the idea of a "toggle off/on" for the ShW. People who don't like it, or find it unrealistic can toggle it off. In an other hand, people who enjoy this feature, or have difficulty to locate a shelling might toggle it on.


...But be sure I'm ALL FOR IT TOO !!

[Herr Kruger]

I agree, make them an OPTIONAL feature, one that is easily done away with or reinstated. I personally liked them.

[Bonxa]

I vote for optional too, just like a lot of other graphical aids in CM.

[AstroCat]

Yep, I'd like to see them come back in an appropiate manner. smile.gif

[Michael Dorosh]

I do like them and agree it should be optional, just like unit tags, etc. - just another visual aid for the player that happens to look damn cool.

[Pzman]

Oh no, not the shockwave arugement again... if you cannot see the artillery going off, its time get glasses you old men.

[Tarkus]

Originally posted by Pzman:
Oh no, not the shockwave arugement again... if you cannot see the artillery going off, its time get glasses you old men. Seesh. Stop being so rude to the elders tongue.gif . Shockwaves are cool. Irrelevant & unrealistic maybe, but cool.

[Battlefront.com]

Boy, I forgot all about those silly things :D No plan to put them in, but what they hey... I'll mention it to Charles.

Steve

[juan_gigante]

I liked them for their campy charm. It was just fun to watch them. I'll bet with CMX2 technology, you could have some pretty kickin' shockwaves. But I would still want an on/off toggle. Or even better, an on/off/mega-super-to-the-max toggle, for special use when you call down the 16" naval artillery.

[YankeeDog]

I thought they were icky. But it won't kill my enjoyment of the game if they're back in. . .

Suggestion: If they're a aid for the less-then perfect vision types, why not tie them to view, or unit size? So in the higher view levels/larger-than-life unit size views, there are "explosion aids for the visually impaired", but at the lower view levels, they're not there, and so don't spoil the cinematic quality of the movies?

[Pzman]

Originally posted by Tarkus:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Pzman:
Oh no, not the shockwave arugement again... if you cannot see the artillery going off, its time get glasses you old men. Seesh. Stop being so rude to the elders tongue.gif . Shockwaves are cool. Irrelevant & unrealistic maybe, but cool. </font>[/QUOTE]They were cool in 2000, but then so were ATI Radeon 7000s. ;)

[Saukopf]

I liked the shock waves too and
it would be nice to see them
reform and make a comeback tour
as a toggleable option. redface.gif )

[gunnersman]

Well...they are going to have to model air that is high in moisture then... :D

[BloodyBucket]

No idea how the new graphics are going to look, but here is another vote for the shockwave in some form.

[GreenAsJade]

Me too. A switch to enable it for those of us who like it would be neat (like the compatible mode smoke switch)

GaJ

[Pzman]

Thats fine and dandy to have an on off switch, but I'd rather have and extra unit in the game, a far better use of Charles time, than shockwaves, IMO.

[Vanir Ausf B]

If it were up to me, I'd have them visible only when the camera is at a high enough elevation that its looking straight down. That's where shockwaves are the most useful, and it would be more realistic.

[WineCape]

Originally posted by Battlefront.com:
Boy, I forgot all about those silly things :D No plan to put them in, but what they hey... I'll mention it to Charles.
Steve Please do. I recall Charles programming an obscure AFV in CMBB while being silly on a substance. smile.gif

Need help on substance silliness?

Sincerely,
Charl Theron
http://wine.capetourism.org/wine/images/logo.gif

-----------------------------------------------------
Co-creator & Sponsor of the following CM tournaments:
</font> The serial Rumblings of War (RoW I, II, III, IV, V) (http://bootsandtracks.com/ROW.php)</font> The infamous CMBO Invitational (http://www.battlefront.com/cgi-bin/bbs/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=16;t=019427)</font> WineCape Tourney I (http://www.battlefront.com/cgi-bin/bbs/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=16;t=019311) and II (http://www.battlefront.com/cgi-bin/bbs/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=16;t=019362)</font>

[ August 27, 2005, 01:44 AM: Message edited by: WineCape ]

[WineCape]

EDIT. whoops.

[Kanonier Reichmann]

Yep, I'm all for shockwaves as well as a toggle feature.

Regards

Jim R.

[ExplodingMonkey]

I gotta fee'va! And the only precription is more arty shockwaves!

[Halberdier]

Originally posted by gunnersman:
Well...they are going to have to model air that is high in moisture then... :D During rain or fog? I wonder if dry, dusty terrain can produce shockwaves?

gunnersman's comment reminded me of a discussion about F/A-18 shockwaves in a Compu$erve forum many years ago , IIRC, a Vietnam Veteran pilot mentioned that you only saw shockwaves due to heavy moisture in the air. Perhaps we have seen too much Vietnam war footage?

Anyway, I say put it near the bottom of the list of neat things to add as an option (way after "speed of sound").

Cheers,
Gabe

[M1A1TC]

I have seen various explosion videos lately, and shock wave is there. Any update if it will be in game?

[Peter Cairns]

On a wider issue, I think we should discuss explosions in general.

I think the explosions in CM are pretty good, and they look great in a lot of games, but I don't think they look "Real".

I think "Game" explosions tend to resemble "Movie" explosions more than the real thing, so they have a lot of flames and billowing black smoke, but not a big enough "Flash" or "Dust" cloud. They also tend to be too slow.

Looking at combat footage of explosions what you tend to get is a huge flash and bang and a massive cloud of dust and at the end a few small fires if any.

What you get in movies and games tends to be slower and have more fire and burning, all and all it makes a more visually stunning effect , but I don't think they are that realistic.

So shock wave or not as CM:SF is at the graphics stage I am for more realistic explosions.

Hows this for an idea.

Post some pictures or video from current conflicts of of real explosions and then have BF post some graphics of what they are thinking about and let people judge which is best or most accurate.

Peter.

[M1A1TC]

Well, some videos can be found here http://www.militaryvideos.net/

[John Kettler]

M1A1TankCommander,

Great site! This one, besides explosions, has a terrific RPG projectile in flight sequence--in slow motion.

http://www.militaryvideos.net/videos.php?videonum=47

People,

I've seen lots of explosion footage from all over the world, for a period spanning decades, and the visible shock wave is a lot more common than you might think. I like the switch idea, and I do agree that the shock wave provided valuable information to the player, providing a much better
idea of the radius of weapon effect than the current no shock wave model does. I can also tell you from ROW experience that since treetop impacts were not modeled in CMBB as far as visuals went, the absence of the shockwave, under reduced visibility conditions, made it very difficult to see where my support fires were landing. This may not be a problem in CM:SF, what with a relative absence of trees in much of Syria, but I'd very much appreciate having the feature as an option.

Regards,

John Kettler

[Elmar Bijlsma]

May I add that the recent Distant Guns: Russo-Japanese War has impact shockwaves too and it looks great. It's not a graphical step backwards for me, far from it. I do not know why but it looks very pleasing.

But Peter Cairns is right in regards to the 'Hollywood' gasoline explosions. It may be what many look for in an exlosion but it does little for me. I vastly prefer a 'real' explosion. A quick flash, chuncks of dirt and debris being flung about and a lingering column of smoke.

[Capt. Toleran]

Chiming in -- I'm also pro-shockwave, loved it in CMBO.

[MikeyD]

CMx2 is being designed from the ground up. I doubt the explosions in-game are going to be those cleverly arranged BMP sequences anymore. Instead of shockwave I'd vote for lingering plumes of dust that stay suspended long enough to spot where the shell fell. The old CMx1 strobe-flash bomb blast may not be enough if the game's going to be realtime play (Gasp, no more repeatedly rerunning a sequence to see what's going on?).

[Homo ferricus]

iono, i did miss em' when i first played CMBB, but recently i went back to CMBO and realized that they looked like crap! I'm all for it if they make an on/off toggle, i would actually like shockwaves to be in there (hopefully it would be situation-sensitive, so there aren't huge shockwaves in an environment in which there wouldn't be much humidity or moisture.) Just as long as they make them look a little more realistic.

o, and also, it would be neat to have dust kick up all over the place when a self-propelled howitzer fires an outgoing round, would give more visual bark, in proportion to the bite, i would think.

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by Iron_man:
...(hopefully it would be situation-sensitive, so there aren't huge shockwaves in an environment in which there wouldn't be much humidity or moisture.)That's a very good point. I was going to raise it myself, but Homo ferricus beat me to it.

Just as long as they make them look a little more realistic.That too.

...and also, it would be neat to have dust kick up all over the place when a self-propelled howitzer fires an outgoing round, would give more visual bark, in proportion to the bite, i would think.And that. Don't forget the same for the muzzle blast of high-velocity weapons. Remember the problems the 88 had in NA?

Michael

[Homo ferricus]

Homo ferricus, thats got a nice ring to it, is it too late to change names?

[YankeeDog]

My $.02:

The major issue I had with the Shock Waves in CMBO was the distinctive, translucent white hemisphere. From what I've seen in footage, this only seems happen in high humidity conditions, where the sudden change in pressure causes spontaneous condensation.

In less humid conditions, it seems to me like you get more of the lensing effect, where the overpressure wave causes visual distortion for a brief moment.

And also of course, a lot of dust and smoke. . .

Hopefully, Graphics technology has progressed far enough, that we won't get the cheesy translucent white hemispheres, and more distortion and fog/smoke effects to simulate the "shock wave". That would be cool.

Cheers,

YD

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by Iron_man:
Homo ferricus, thats got a nice ring to it...Doesn't it? I'm rather proud of it. It sounds like you are sexually attracted to same-sex ferrets.

...is it too late to change names? I don't know. It is possible to change your nick, but maybe you have to have been around for some minimum period first. Look in your profile and you should be able to find out.

Michael

[Homo ferricus]

lets give this new nick a try, see if anyone can make the connection...

hmm, perhaps i should start putting quotes of people praising me as my sig? Nah, i suppose that would be rather egomaniacal, better keep Hitler up there.

[Stingray]

I vote for shock waves...toggable please.

[Imperial Grunt]

I vote for shockwaves if they look cool. I admit I like eye candy in games.

But what I am really hoping for is realistic sounds, especially that special "ca-rumph" sound that artillery makes when it lands on target. Warms the soul.

Oh and when an AC-130 fires its 20mm chaingun. And when fast movers come on station, and Cobras come in to make a gun run, and the sound of M1A1 main gun rounds being fired, and...

[Peter Cairns]

Imperial Grunt

......the smell of Napalm in the morning,

I just bet you just love that too.

Peter.

[Imperial Grunt]

Actually I have never smelled napalm Peter. Before my time.

And everyone who knows what it is like to be shot at loves the sounds I have described.

Regarding the game though, it would be great if the effects were as realistic as possible. That was my point.

[M1A1TC]

Have you played Mercenaries for PS2? The explosions in that game are very realistic/cool looking (particle effects,etc)

[Homo ferricus]

Originally posted by M1A1TankCommander:
Have you played Mercenaries for PS2? The explosions in that game are very realistic/cool looking (particle effects,etc) That game was friggin awesome, but it still had the whole Hollywood explosion thing going on.

screenshot:
http://www.gamerevolution.com/images/games/ps2/mercenaries/mercenaries_002.jpg

i liked the effects and all, but it didn't look like the videos above.

[M1A1TC]

Yes, but the explosions look better then in CM games, especially smoke effects

[J Ruddy]

my 2 cents...

Shockwaves = Good
Realistic Explosions = Great
Realisting Sounds = Required

[hellfish]

I'd like to see dust thrown up when the main gun fires more than I'd like to see the shockwave.

[Elmar Bijlsma]

Whay you meant was that you want them both, right? RIGHT?!? :mad: :mad: :mad:

[M1A1TC]

Originally posted by fytinghellfish:
I'd like to see dust thrown up when the main gun fires more than I'd like to see the shockwave. Second that

[Imperial Grunt]

I want it all done right. I also hope the tracers are done realistically for all the different weapons systems. I also want to see the ricochets, the dust clouds from overpressure and impacts, and guys ducking.

Not that we need to see alot of blood and guts, but I wonder if the casualites are all going to be "bloodless" as in CMx1.

I also wondering about the debris of war: brass casings, ammo cans, expended fibers from missiles and mortar rounds, etc...

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by Imperial Grunt:
I want it all done right. I also hope the tracers are done realistically for all the different weapons systems. I also want to see the ricochets, the dust clouds from overpressure and impacts, and guys ducking.

Not that we need to see alot of blood and guts, but I wonder if the casualites are all going to be "bloodless" as in CMx1.

I also wondering about the debris of war: brass casings, ammo cans, expended fibers from missiles and mortar rounds, etc... I hope there isn't so much useless graphical crap and visible white noise that I have to buy a new computer just to run the damn thing.

[Imperial Grunt]

Oh well, I already did! And Dell is late in delivering the damn thing!!!

[Elmar Bijlsma]

Originally posted by Imperial Grunt:
Oh well, I already did! And Dell is late in delivering the damn thing!!! No worries, so is Battlefront! :D

[hellfish]

I just bought a 64bit 4200 dual core and 2 gigs of RAM. As soon as I get a new video card I'm all set to let Dorosh keep whining and giggle with pity for him.

[Elmar Bijlsma]

This is a good explosion btw:
http://www.battlefront-newsletter.com/Portals/0/shot23.jpg
but I find the lack of blastwave disturbing. smile.gif But I certainly did enjoy that, Moon. Thanks!

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by fytinghellfish:
I just bought a 64bit 4200 dual core and 2 gigs of RAM. As soon as I get a new video card I'm all set to let Dorosh keep whining and giggle with pity for him. wwwhhhoooooossssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

The only whining in this thread are the unbecoming pleas for "every brass cartridge" - naturally modelled with correct struck primers and head stampings. Probably won't buy CM:SF in any event, especially if ToW and WW II DT and CM:C come out in the same quarter. I have a rig that is only 6 months old anyhow. tongue.gif

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by Elmar Bijlsma:
This is a good explosion btw:
but I find the lack of blastwave disturbing. smile.gif But I certainly did enjoy that, Moon. Thanks! The over the shoulder look on buddy's face is just as good as the explosion IMO. ;)

[Elmar Bijlsma]

I hadn't actually noticed. That is kinda cool.

[Elmar Bijlsma]

So...

how about them shockwaves?

[BeauCoupDinkyDau]

God, I would love to see the shockwaves return. An optional on/off feature for them would be awesome!