Opinions on Air Bursts

[Huntarr]

Originally posted by Huntarr:
http://i8.tinypic.com/4q8re4l.jpg
New effect 1.03



Just my personal preference, I really liked the "Cone of Death" It immediately reminded me of airbursts the first time I saw them. The only thing that could have made them look more realistic would be the little random dirt puffs that pop in a circular pattern under the airburst from the fragmentation. That may be getting a little too detailed smile.gif
http://i14.tinypic.com/67z53k2.jpg

Ye ole effect 1.02

I also noticed the smoke is gone from 1.03. :( That was very true to life. That's missed. If the speed of the down effect of the cone was faster would that might be a good compromise. Please share your thoughts. I can live with either I just like the prior version.

[ April 06, 2008, 08:20 AM: Message edited by: Huntarr ]

[Thomm]

Without having seen the new version in action, I expect it to be much better and more immersive than the slowly falling shrapnel dots.

The little random dirt puffs would be the best solution, of course! They could even bring back some of the old shockwave glory, if they spread with the speed of sound!

Best regards,
Thomm

[Nidan1]

I personally think the 1.03 version is probably a bit more realistic. (I have not seen them myself, just posted SS's.)

Unless a round has some sort of sub-munition that is designed to "rain down" on a target after the container bursts in the air over it, you really should not get that "showering" effect for every round fired on personnel.

When a regular mortar or artillery shell bursts in the air without hitting trees or any other overhead materials, you should just see a regular burst of light and a bit of smoke. The fragments of the shell would fly about in all directions rather than just heading down. The screen shot provided for ver. 1.03, clearly duplicates that IMO.

[ August 31, 2007, 07:36 AM: Message edited by: Nidan1 ]

[MikeyD]

I should know this... tactical air, no cannister munitions, right? I suppose the footprint of a cannister round would be a bit too wide to use on a CM size map. Though the Germans in CMx1 were given a rather spectacular bomblet drop capability.

[Huntarr]

here is a video that should help you see that BFC was closer to the real thing the first time around.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9i2KncoJbuw

The trick to the visual is the combination of puff of smoke in the air, but what really sells it is the ground effect.

[Molloy]

The original animation was much better. Now, there are far too many ugly specs of gray/brown that clutter the screen with any decent volume of artillery fire. Bring back the elegant smoke! ;)

[Mord]

If I had a choice...I'd go with the original. But both are cool. The explosion textures rock in this game...very organic looking.


Mord.

[Huntarr]

Molloy & Mord you get an OOHHRAAHH!

Semper Fi

[C'Rogers]

Before reading this thread I just replayed the first campaign scenario with heavy artillery.

One of my thoughts during the game was "wow the airbursts look a lot better than I remember".

As for whether they look more realistic or not I have no idea, but my initial reaction was positive.

[Pandur]

i like the new airbursts, but i find the scaling wich comes into action when you scroll away from the explosions, a bit too much. when you watch it from the other side of the map the little mortar exposion suddenly look 5 times as big.

thats quiet strange...

[JonS]

The new ones are far and away better - the old one looked like nothing more than a gentle summer rain shower, slowly drifting down.

[Huntarr]

Originally posted by JonS:
The new ones are far and away better - the old one looked like nothing more than a gentle summer rain shower, slowly drifting down. The speed of the cone can be sped up.

I don't like the scaling of the burst. It is the same at long range as it is short range. It looks silly at long range. The burst is massive.

Here is an Mil file for those who think airbursts are spherical explosions. They are conical in effect.

http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2002gun/becker.pdf

[ November 22, 2007, 12:25 PM: Message edited by: Huntarr ]

[JonS]

The speed of the cone can be sped up. Arr! Perhaps, but it never was, now was it matey!

But away with ye. The whole thinking that fragments come down in a CMSF-like cone is for the scurvey dogs ... unless the US Army has started using Lt Henry Shrapnel's foul spherical case shot. Yarrr!

[ September 19, 2007, 05:00 PM: Message edited by: Red John Vane ]

[Huntarr]

http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2002gun/becker.pdf
read the above paper

The fragmentation effect, NOT the explosive

http://i1.tinypic.com/6afk2hg.jpg
http://i11.tinypic.com/5yn9stl.jpg

[ November 21, 2007, 09:25 PM: Message edited by: Huntarr ]

[JonS]

Arr! I be acquainted with airbursts, ye foul footslogger.

I be thinking the other 'un be the better 'un. Sorry if I spoiled ye foul vote building schemes. Yaarrr!

[ September 19, 2007, 04:57 PM: Message edited by: Red John Vane ]

[thelmia]

Yarrrrrrrr until tomorrow matey.

I be thinking that the new cannon balls be running better on me graphics settings. Thar make it better by my reckon.

[Erwin.Rommel]

Both are good~~
But I think the color of the fragment(1.03)should be changed(the color in 1.02 is just good),the gray fragment looks a little ugly and Bring back the smoke

[Hev]

I think the original was MUCH better then the version we get now. The "cone of death" looked better, was more realistic and aside from that if gave me wood :D

[Martin Krejcirik]

I don't care how airbursts look, but they are too ineffective against troops on the rooftops. I would think a Quick mortar mission agaist a single roof would cause more then a one or two casualty.

[thewood]

Originally posted by Hev:
I think the original was MUCH better then the version we get now. The "cone of death" looked better, was more realistic and aside from that if gave me wood :D I take offence at that, I don't even know you.

[Sixxkiller]

Ya the original was better.

And Huntarr, please contain your OOrahs until the Marines have landed. The correct term for the game is Hooah (and anyother time for that matter).

smile.gif

[Huntarr]

Since the debate has reappeared a bump wouldn't be out of line.

"Cone of Death" should simply get a faster descent speed and optimally some dust kick up.

Please feel free to way in your opinions.

[Cpl Steiner]

The old "cone of death" didn't look right because the fragments were moving too slowly and also in a pronounced parabola rather than straight down like a bullet. However, the new graphic is just plain wrong as many have pointed out. It looks more like anti-aircraft flak than artillery fire.

I would prefer something that looked rather like a giant sawn-off shotgun blast aimed at the ground, coupled with a pronounced amount of disturbed dust and earth when the blast touches the ground.

[Hev]

Steiners discription hits the nail on the head

[hoolaman]

You could just forget about the particle fragment effects and just have the puff of smoke at the top and the impact puffs on the ground.

That is what the excellent video posted by huntarr above shows.

Originally posted by Huntarr:
here is a video that should help you see that BFC was closer to the real thing the first time around.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9i2KncoJbuw

The trick to the visual is the combination of puff of smoke in the air, but what really sells it is the ground effect.

[wunwinglow]

I remember being able to mod explosions in Combat Flight Simulator 2 so there were little strikes all around the main bang; it looks especially effective over water, where the main spout would have loads of little fragment splashes; and this was 5 years ago!

I agree, bang/flash in the air, mess of smoke and dust on the ground.

But no zooming over to the target area and hearing the screams of otherwise invisible enemy troops...

Tim

[the Fighting Seabee]

http://fracpilot.com/videos/Artillery.wmv

Some air burst rounds mixed in there at the end. The only thing I think the game needs visually (as far as artillery goes) is dust. In the video, and every other explosion I have ever seen, a large amount of dust is kicked up. They already model it with smoke clouds and dust from moving vehicles, why not make large explosions create large dust clouds?

[the Fighting Seabee]

Originally posted by the Fighting Seabee:
http://fracpilot.com/videos/Artillery.wmv

Some air burst rounds mixed in there at the end I think or maybe just stuff launched up from explosions. The only thing I think the game needs visually (as far as artillery goes) is dust. In the video, and every other explosion I have ever seen, a large amount of dust is kicked up. They already model it with smoke clouds and dust from moving vehicles, why not make large explosions create large dust clouds?

[Cpl Steiner]

Originally posted by the Fighting Seabee:
http://fracpilot.com/videos/Artillery.wmv

Some air burst rounds mixed in there at the end. The only thing I think the game needs visually (as far as artillery goes) is dust. In the video, and every other explosion I have ever seen, a large amount of dust is kicked up. They already model it with smoke clouds and dust from moving vehicles, why not make large explosions create large dust clouds? Absolutely. Apart from the visuals, it would be more realistic from a gameplay point of view as the dust kicked up by a large strike might linger for quite a while, causing LOS problems for both friendlies and the enemy.

[Huntarr]

Since Artillery Smoke seems to be on most minds lately. The old smoke from arty was IMHO significantly better looking. I just don’t care for the mis-scaled burst of artillery at distance. It stays huge at range entirely out of proportion. An 81mm should not look like a 4th of July sparkler. The "beaded" quality of the burst is distracting. I’ve provided written docs, video, photos, and personal endorsements on airbursts. tongue.gif

Just take a look at the old smoke from arty, it was mean and nasty looking, now we just don’t have that same effect. The “Cone of Death” can be easily addressed by increasing its speed of downward motion. (adding an angle of descent would be much loved) Throw in little random dirt puffs that pop in a circular pattern under the airburst from the fragmentation and you have yourself some seriously intimidating Artillery. We had much more smoke from Artillery is it too hard to bring that smoke back?

I even have a new clip using Devil Dogs
USMC Air Burst (http://splodetv.com/video/usmc-artillery-direct-fire-air-burst)

http://i31.tinypic.com/9bktmu.jpg
http://i27.tinypic.com/2re4pbc.gif

[ April 06, 2008, 08:29 AM: Message edited by: Huntarr ]

[Splinty]

Originally posted by Sixxkiller:
Ya the original was better.

And Huntarr, please contain your OOrahs until the Marines have landed. The correct term for the game is Hooah (and anyother time for that matter).

smile.gif Except when he's saying no...

[Elmar Bijlsma]

Originally posted by Huntarr:

Just take a look at the old smoke from arty, it was mean and nasty looking, now we just don’t have that same effect. The “Cone of Death” can be easily addressed by increasing its speed of downward motion. (adding an angle of descent would be much loved) Throw in little random dirt puffs that pop in a circular pattern under the airburst from the fragmentation and you have yourself some seriously intimidating Artillery. We had much more smoke from Artillery is it too hard to bring that smoke back?
I am Elmar Bijlsma, and I support this message. And not just because I can be easily bribed. :D

[Kirq]

Im a bit surprised by lack of dust under airbursts. There is so great looking dust after detonations and even after tank main canon blast. I dont see reason why not to generate some random small dust spots under airburst detonation , I would benefit both visual and tactical aspect of the game cause heavy antipersonel barrage would obscure LOS in that area for a long time.

I think that this video shows how airburst should look like smile.gif http://www.splodetv.com/video/usmc-artillery-direct-fire-air-burst

[Huntarr]

I'm glad you agree Kirq and thank you for that support that's why I posted that video a couple days ago.
I even have a new clip using Devil Dogs
USMC Air Burst (http://splodetv.com/video/usmc-artillery-direct-fire-air-burst) A return and/or addition of the old smoke could possibly cut down on a lot of the cries for Arty smoke as a seperate deloyable assest.

Although we all know we would like it for massive smoke barrages. ;)

[Field Marshal Blücher]

Originally posted by Huntarr:
A return and/or addition of the old smoke could possibly cut down on a lot of the cries for Arty smoke as a seperate deloyable assest.

Although we all know we would like it for massive smoke barrages. ;) [/QB]I would definitely like increased smoke effects for current artillery, but I'd still want artillery-fired smoke rounds even with them. It's an ammunition thing. smile.gif

[Kirq]

Sorry Hantar, I dont know how but I didnt noticed You have already posted this vid :/

[Huntarr]

Well Holy Hannah! After more than a year of hand to jar fighting Airburst's Cone of Death has come back with a vengeance and they are meaner & better looking than the original. OUTSTANDING! {Break} Don't let this low res .gif fool you Devilpups they are mean & nasty. There is hot lead in the air and the dust is getting kicked up. {Break} Steve is gonna NJP(Non-judicial punishment) my arse for showing you this, but I'll tell him that we had a bad C2 radio link. {Out}

http://i34.tinypic.com/rh72mg.gif

http://i35.tinypic.com/dzxv9f.jpg

http://i36.tinypic.com/8wwqxi.jpg

[Cpl Steiner]

Great footage of the new patch - if that's what it is.

[handihoc]

That is mega-cool.

[Paper Tiger]

It HAS to be v1.10 feature. This new version is looking better and better with each new leaked feature. And it was already awesome.

the next couple of weeks are going to d - r - a - g! :D

[c3k]

Very nice!

(But what will these new airbursts do to my M249 gunner? :) :) )

Thanks,
Ken

[Field Marshal Blücher]

Need . . . Devil Dogs . . . Now . . .

[fireship4]

It looks to me the dust puffs on the .GIF aren't spread out enough in comparison to the video. Maybe it is unfinished though.

[Huntarr]

Where's the love for the new & improved "Cone of Death"?!

Heck, I outta tell them BFC boys ya'll are a bunch of spoiled grab-tastic slackers! Give our Art(y) boys a big oOOHHRAH!

[Field Marshal Blücher]

OORAH!

I really do love the new airbursts. I've just been using them too much to post about them!

[Battlefront.com]

Heh... there's a battle in the Campaign where the only thing that will save you is a bunch of airburst 60mm in the correct spot at the correct time. Miss your window and you're likely to get overrun.

Although airbursts have always been in the game, damn do they look great at night now! Well, unless your own guys are under them. Not quite as pretty when that happens.

Steve