Sound Modeling

[Shep]

No American Robins chirping away in ambient sound mode this time I hope.

European swallows only.

Unladen flight speed modelling optional.

[Tagwyn]

Shep: Swallows what? Tag

[jeffsmith]

SWALLOWS !!! (http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/Forum1/HTML/007331.html)

[Hensworth]

Yes.

And please no violent thunderstorm every time it's raining.

[flamingknives]

Speed of sound? This has always bugged me a bit with CMX1 - You'd see an explosion and hear it at the same time, even if you were kilometres away.

Attenuation/echoing with distance?

Perhaps if you select a unit, you hear what they'd hear, regardless of where the view point was.

Hmm, one for the poll thread, methinks.

[aka_tom_w]

NOW that would be ground breaking

Speed of sound modeled in the game?

You see the BANG far away and depending on where the camera is and the distance from the "BANG" you would hear (in the computer speakers) the sound of the BANG sometime later...

now just how hard would that be?

-tom w

Originally posted by flamingknives:
Speed of sound? This has always bugged me a bit with CMX1 - You'd see an explosion and hear it at the same time, even if you were kilometres away.

Attenuation/echoing with distance?

Perhaps if you select a unit, you hear what they'd hear, regardless of where the view point was.

Hmm, one for the poll thread, methinks.

[Elmar Bijlsma]

Originally posted by Shep:
No American Robins chirping away in ambient sound mode this time I hope.

European swallows only.

Unladen flight speed modelling optional. If by some unlikelyhood the new game is set in North America, I fully expect Steve to fly over and record European bird song just to annoy us. :D

On the speed of sound thing: Eeewwww, no thanks! Is it realistic? Yes! But I still hold the view that it isn't CMx1 (or Hollywood) who's portrayal of sound is wrong rather I hold the view that the laws of physics themselves stuffed up and should be changed. :D It would be increasingly hard to follow what was going on and who was doing what to whom. Besides, I would think the computational power needed to keep track would be prohibitive.

[flamingknives]

It would make it trickier, but it would be great fun. You'd get the rounds of a high-velocity gun goingpast before you hear the report of the gun. That would also require tracers as light sources, so you can see them.

CMX1 already lowers the volume depending on where your view point is relative to the source. Adding a corresponding delay shouldn't be too hard*. It wouldn't have to be too accurate, just so long that at about a kilometre it's about a second would suit me fine.

Really I just want to see a hill light up under artillery fire in silence, then hear the thunder. It's not groundbreaking - it's been modelled in at least one other game (it might be Operation Flashpoint, but I could be wrong). It's certainly not usual.

*I might be entirely wrong on this, as my programming skills are somewhat limited. Nonetheless it's a function that depends on an existing variable.

[ozi_digger]

I demand separate sounds for the kubelwagen!
(Assuming CMx2 is WW2 that is)
That means I can record the *dak dak* of my kombi as a .wav file and throw it in as a sound mod.

[JonS]

Originally posted by flamingknives:
It would make it trickier, but it would be great fun. You'd get the rounds of a high-velocity gun goingpast before you hear the report of the gun. ... and if you change the unit selected, you might either never hear the round fired (the soundwave hasn't reached the old unit, but has already passed the new unit when you select it), or hear it twice (the new unit is further away from the source than the old one). Now, that would be confusing as hell.

And on a noisy battlefield you'd have no way of telling which sounds you'd missed altogether, ad which you'd heard twice.

[gunnersman]

Im with flamingknives. The sound that traveled at the speed of light bugged me. I would love to see the modeling of the speed of sound. Now I know immersion is not as big a part of this type of game, but when I first played the demo of CMBO and the artillery dropped, the screen shake from "concussion waves" made me like it that much more. I think speed of sound will add that again. Its always the little things like that, that get me.

[Halberdier]

Speed of sound has bugged me too. (But it also bugs me when those numbskulls in Hollywood keep syncing the lightening and thunder sounds.)

The issue with selecting units and losing sound would only occur during playback. This is still going to be a WEGO system? Hmm, I wonder what would happen if during playback I spun the map around frantically while there was gunfire and explosions?

I think that it will add to immersion. I also like attenuation and/or echoing with distance, but that might take a bit of programming time/processing power.

Cheers,
Gabe

Originally posted by flamingknives:
Speed of sound? This has always bugged me a bit with CMX1 - You'd see an explosion and hear it at the same time, even if you were kilometres away.

Attenuation/echoing with distance?

Perhaps if you select a unit, you hear what they'd hear, regardless of where the view point was.

Hmm, one for the poll thread, methinks.

[JonS]

Originally posted by Halberdier:
The issue with selecting units and losing sound would only occur during playbackWell, duh. There isn't an awful lot of firing going on during the orders phase, now is there :rolleyes: ;)

[Tarkus]

Speaking of sound, I think an interesting issue would be to try to reproduce the way sounds transform with distance. For example, if you are listening to a fire fight from a distance, gun shots do not sounds as crisp as up close on the firing range.

Also, I don't know if it's possible, (but I'm pretty sure it ain't easy ;) ...) but some sort of doppler effect would be quite impressive too. Arty shells roaring over head or bullet buzzing past your ear... I know there are limitations on this count (basically the number and position of speakers) but I'd be willing to go surround if the game uses it....

My 0,02 $ CAD. Cheers.

[ August 30, 2005, 08:29 AM: Message edited by: Tarkus ]

[gunnersman]

Originally posted by Halberdier:
... Hmm, I wonder what would happen if during playback I spun the map around frantically while there was gunfire and explosions?

I think that it will add to immersion. I also like attenuation and/or echoing with distance, but that might take a bit of programming time/processing power.

Cheers,
Gabe
Details, details.

Wouldn't that be a part of the "crunching"? So it is already factored in while you are viewing the action. Right?

[simovitch]

Speaking of sound, a little trickling of water as you near a creek or river would be a nice effect.

[flamingknives]

Originally posted by gunnersman:
Details, details.

Wouldn't that be a part of the "crunching"? So it is already factored in while you are viewing the action. Right? It can't be, as you can move your viewpoint around after the 'crunching' has taken place.

[ August 29, 2005, 08:42 AM: Message edited by: flamingknives ]

[undead reindeer cavalry]

i hear there are basements so they damned better get the mice & rat sounds right!

[Cull]

How about a slider for ambient sounds?
I was one that whined about the volume of the wind and "storm" sounds and felt it was just distracting and/or too loud relative to other sounds. I like them both and think they add to the immersion, but the all-or-nothing setting just caused me to stop using them.

Infantry voices: some a quite good, a few are very silly, or innapropriate. The only "problem" I have with them is that I hate it when contact has not yet been made Gomer Pyle yells out "OKAAAY SAAARGE!!". Especially at night. :mad: :D I know it doesn't affect the game itself, but I cringe every time and it hurts the immersion.
I guess my overall approach would be to focus on general "noise of battle" sounds---"I need ammo!", "Put some fire on that house!", "Medic!", that kind of thing---over the rest of it.
Don't mean to sound too negative on that stuff, as most of it is quite good as it is.

Vehicle sounds: I'd like more realism and variation in those, especially AFVs. Not unique ones for every vehicle by any means, just engines gunning when movement starts, when AFVs are turning, etc. Having a few different sounds in differnt terrain would be cool---on pavement, in trees, mud, and whatnot.

Weapon/gun/explosion sounds: they are largely fine the way they are (and there are some excellent mods, of course) so I don't see any huge need for drastic change there.
Though I think modelling the speed of sound would be cool, it'd be purely window dressing to me. Payoff would not be worth the coding effort/additional engine stress.

[gunnersman]

Originally posted by flamingknives:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by gunnersman:
Details, details.

Wouldn't that be a part of the "crunching"? So it is already factored in while you are viewing the action. Right? It can't be, as you can move your viewpoint around after the 'crunching' has taken place. </font>[/QUOTE]THINK POSITIVE MAN!
:D

[British Tommy]

...and speaking of sound, I just hope they don't use bloody cockney voices for the British infantry again! :0

[Dr.Love]

Originally posted by British Tommy:
...and speaking of sound, I just hope they don't use bloody cockney voices for the British infantry again! :0 I hope the Aussi voices say nothing but "G'day mate!", and "Look at that croc"!. Paul Hogan would love to be a part of this project I'm sure.

[Pzman]

Crocs in CM? I don't know about that. Maybe the reason BFC hasn't given the name is is because its..."Combat Mission:Croc Hunter."

[Dr.Love]

Crickey! That'd be a good one mate!

[juan_gigante]

"A dingo ate my Bren team!" & "Throw a Sherman on the barbie."

[Steiner14]

Originally posted by Tarkus:
Speaking of sound, I think an interesting issue would be to try to reproduce the way sounds transform with distance. For example, if you are listening to a fire fight from a distance, gun shots do not sounds as crisp as up close on the firing range.I second that.
It could be done by using a simple lowpass-filter, with cutoff-frequency set by unit's distance to the camera.

[Dr.Love]

Originally posted by juan_gigante:
"A dingo ate my Bren team!" & "Throw a Sherman on the barbie." How do we eat while our tank are burning? The blime has come! A tracks a track, it belonged to them and now it's a snack!

[PseudoSimonds]

Let me get this straight. You want the speed of sounds from hundreds of units to be calculated in real time as you swoop over the battle and jump from unit to unit.

Not to mention that you already have a god-like view of the battle, so I have no idea why god-like hearing would be so upsetting.

[Brent Pollock]

...unless we get a Commissar rule ;)

Originally posted by JonS:
[snipped] There isn't an awful lot of firing going on during the orders phase, now is there :rolleyes: ;)

[Tarkus]

Originally posted by PseudoSimonds:
Let me get this straight. You want the speed of sounds from hundreds of units to be calculated in real time as you swoop over the battle and jump from unit to unit.
Not to mention that you already have a god-like view of the battle, so I have no idea why god-like hearing would be so upsetting. If you're talking about CMx1, then I suppose you are right, but we don't know yet what will be the exact proprotion of divine knowledge in the next generation. ;) Might as well discuss sound as part of the equation, no ? With that said, I honestly confess I don't know how this can be done technically, to say nothing of the kind of work involved.

Cheers

[Scipio]

Speaking of sound, speed of sound would be nice, but I guess we need to be able to switch between realistc and light speed.

Originally posted by Tarkus:
...For example, if you are listening to a fire fight from a distance, gun shots do not sounds as crisp as up close on the firing range.

... some sort of doppler effect would be quite impressive too. Arty shells roaring over head or bullet buzzing past your ear...I second that.

Would be BTW also nice if you can hear the Off-Map artillery fireing from some distance, too smile.gif

[flamingknives]

Originally posted by PseudoSimonds:
Let me get this straight. You want the speed of sounds from hundreds of units to be calculated in real time as you swoop over the battle and jump from unit to unit.

Not to mention that you already have a god-like view of the battle, so I have no idea why god-like hearing would be so upsetting. Sound volume is already reduced with distance, why not add a delay as well?
OK, I'm in danger of going into "I know nothing about this but I'm going to comment as if my posts were ex cathedra" territory.

But it would be a good feature.

Would be BTW also nice if you can hear the Off-Map artillery fireing from some distance, too Already in CMX1, if you listen for it.

[PseudoSimonds]

Originally posted by flamingknives:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by PseudoSimonds:
Let me get this straight. You want the speed of sounds from hundreds of units to be calculated in real time as you swoop over the battle and jump from unit to unit.

Not to mention that you already have a god-like view of the battle, so I have no idea why god-like hearing would be so upsetting. Sound volume is already reduced with distance, why not add a delay as well?
OK, I'm in danger of going into "I know nothing about this but I'm going to comment as if my posts were ex cathedra" territory.

But it would be a good feature.
</font>[/QUOTE]Good point. But I think the volume is a lot easier to control since you just play the sound and then adjust the volume with camera distance. With delayed sound, as you move the camera you're changing the time when the clip should've started playing or how far along in the sound clip it should be. Then again, I'm no programmer so maybe there's some trickery that makes it easier than I think.

[Scipio]

Originally posted by flamingknives:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Would be BTW also nice if you can hear the Off-Map artillery fireing from some distance, too Already in CMX1, if you listen for it. </font>[/QUOTE]I guess you mean the ambience sound, but I speak of artillery sounds corresponding to the artillery orders of my FOs. Or have I missed something?

[dalem]

I wouldn't mind more variety in the background sound environment myself.

Are you a lone patrol far forward? A piece of a larger engagement with battle equal to yours raging just off screen? Are there radio squawks going on when you click on your HQ units, or just dead air?

-dale

[flamingknives]

Originally posted by Scipio:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by flamingknives:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Would be BTW also nice if you can hear the Off-Map artillery fireing from some distance, too Already in CMX1, if you listen for it. </font>[/QUOTE]I guess you mean the ambience sound, but I speak of artillery sounds corresponding to the artillery orders of my FOs. Or have I missed something? </font>[/QUOTE]Yup, you're missing something.

PseudoSimonds:
My rookie programmer instinct would be:
If volume=X, then count Y then play "sound"

Volume and distance are related, so a simple relationship with X and Y ought to have the desired effect.

*Sailing wayyyyyyyy off into "I know nothing about this but I'm going to comment as if my posts were ex cathedra" territory.*

[Scipio]

Originally posted by flamingknives:
Yup, you're missing something.I don't. I have checked again, with ambient sound turned off. Nothing to hear before the *sssst-boom*.

[norvandave]

For North Africa scenarios, an African swallow.

[flamingknives]

Originally posted by Scipio:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by flamingknives:
Yup, you're missing something.I don't. I have checked again, with ambient sound turned off. Nothing to hear before the *sssst-boom*. </font>[/QUOTE]Maybe I'm having auditory hallucinations then, but I'm sure I've heard it for the larger calibres (105mm and over) maybe 5-10 seconds before the *ssssst-boom*

[Scipio]

Originally posted by flamingknives:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Scipio:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by flamingknives:
Yup, you're missing something.I don't. I have checked again, with ambient sound turned off. Nothing to hear before the *sssst-boom*. </font>[/QUOTE]Maybe I'm having auditory hallucinations then, but I'm sure I've heard it for the larger calibres (105mm and over) maybe 5-10 seconds before the *ssssst-boom* </font>[/QUOTE]Or maybe you're using different sound files than me, since my are modded.

[flamingknives]

Mine are certainly the clean ones.

[J Ruddy]

I agree that an echo or delay is a nice to have feature but.. the first release will be space lobsters and in space no one can hear you scream...

btw... in CMAK where are the French Canadians?

Maudis Tabernaque!

[J Ruddy]

Someone please tell me they are putting in a freeking volume control! When I am Voip'd to my opponant and can't make him any louder and can't make the game quieter (without moving away from the battlefield or muting the game) it sure makes conversation frustrating...

Give me sliders or give me death!
Master --------O--
Ambient ---O--------
Game Sounds --------O---
Music O-----------
Space Lobsters ----------O-

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