WW2..?

[Nelson 1812]

Can you confirm the time period, as a lot of people are hoping that it well be set sometime within the 1939-1945 time frame...

[jeffsmith]

Originally posted by Madmatt:
We plan on announcing the subject matter for the 1st and 2nd CMx2 games in a few weeks. Screen shots and other visual materials will accompany the announcement.from the original announcement

[Reg Pither]

Originally posted by jeffsmith:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Madmatt:
We plan on announcing the subject matter for the 1st and 2nd CMx2 games in a few weeks. Screen shots and other visual materials will accompany the announcement.from the original announcement </font>[/QUOTE]I think Nelson 1812 asks a perfectly reasonable question, although I just assumed it would be WWII again. I read the announcement as the 'subject' would be the 'theatre' of the war, rather than a completely different conflict. To be honest, if it's not WWII (or Napoleonic! ;) ) I'll give it a miss, so I'd quite like to know now before I get my hopes up.

So is my reading of 'subject' correct, or will I just have to wait? :confused:

[Sgt Joch]

Although it has not been confirmed, the most likely subject matter would be Northwest Europe 1944-45.

[Grapeshot]

I have a feeling it will not be WW2 hence the mystery.

[Reg Pither]

Originally posted by Grapeshot:
I have a feeling it will not be WW2 hence the mystery. I'm beginning to feel you may be right. :(

Oh, well, I'll just have to keep playing the old versions, then. smile.gif

[Salkin]

There's been lots of rumours about a "Space Lobster" game. I wouldn't mind some shellfish action in space that's for sure !

//Salkin

[Bogdan]

Ok, what do we win if we find the historical period or the military campaign ? A free CMx2 copy ? Mmhh ? ;)

So me, I would say... ...Ardennes 1944 !

[bruce90]

I wouldn't mind Korea which would give the opportunity to play games of 'out in the open'fluidity for the first part of the war or the small action static frontline of the latter part.

[Sirocco]

I would be very surprised if it isn't WW2. It's a very popular period, so it makes good business sense, especially for the first release when they'll be looking to make back their investment. And they have the benefit of years of detailed research.

[Sgt Joch]

well, others may argue, but CM1 and I presume CM2 is basically about armored combat.

Europe, 1939-45, is the most interesting armored combat arena.

The only other interesting theater for armored combat would be middle east 1967 and 1973,(which I would personally love!) but I doubt CM2 will be set in the modern era.

If you go to other wars, like Korea or Vietnam, they were principally infantry affairs. An infantry focused game would make sense if CM2 was designed on a smaller scale than CM1 (i.e. platoon/section sized), but Battlefront as already stated that CM2 will be the same "size" as CM1 (i.e. company sized).

So based on all that, WW2 is the most likely suspect. The only interesting WW2 Tank theaters are NWE 1944-45, USSR 1941-45 and NA 1940-43. Battlefront have already stated that the first CM2 game will not be Eastern Front or North Africa, so that only leaves NWE 1944-45 ( unless you lend credence to the Space Lobsters rumours! :D ).

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by JC_Hare:
If you go to other wars, like Korea or Vietnam, they were principally infantry affairs. An infantry focused game would make sense if CM2 was designed on a smaller scale than CM1 (i.e. platoon/section sized), but Battlefront as already stated that CM2 will be the same "size" as CM1 (i.e. company sized).No, not exactly. Right now, CM can field up to a brigade on each side on the same map, and many scenarios have entire battalions depicted. Steve has said that a reinforced company will likely be an upper limit in CMX2. So CMX2 will be substantially smaller.

[Sgt Joch]

Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by JC_Hare:
If you go to other wars, like Korea or Vietnam, they were principally infantry affairs. An infantry focused game would make sense if CM2 was designed on a smaller scale than CM1 (i.e. platoon/section sized), but Battlefront as already stated that CM2 will be the same "size" as CM1 (i.e. company sized).No, not exactly. Right now, CM can field up to a brigade on each side on the same map, and many scenarios have entire battalions depicted. Steve has said that a reinforced company will likely be an upper limit in CMX2. So CMX2 will be substantially smaller. </font>[/QUOTE]Yes, I know and I have played battalion sized games, but they get unwieldly because of the number of units involved. CM1 works best with 1-2 companies per side and it looks like CM2 will be the same.

What I meant to say, but was taking a shortcut is that CM1 was "sized" around a tank, and more specifically around a 1944-45 tank, Sherman, Panther, Tiger, etc.

Put a Sherman or Panther on a CM1 map and it's just the right size. It's clear that the game was designed around the one tank concept. The infantry units were chosen so that the unit size (i.e. squad) would make sense in relation to the one tank concept. From everything I have read, it looks like CM2 is also designed around the central one tank concept and that it's primary focus will be Tank combat, not that there's anything wrong with that :cool: .

[Michael Emrys]

I would hazard a guess that the first release will definitely not be Napoleonic, for two reasons. The first is, unless BFC is getting awfully deep into deception operations, Steve's recent comments and hints wouldn't make as much sense vis-a-vis a pre-20th. century game.

Secondly and more compelling, such a game would be in direct competition with a game that they are soon to release from another designer, and so far BFC hasn't struck me as being that loony.

Michael

[dalem]

Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by JC_Hare:
If you go to other wars, like Korea or Vietnam, they were principally infantry affairs. An infantry focused game would make sense if CM2 was designed on a smaller scale than CM1 (i.e. platoon/section sized), but Battlefront as already stated that CM2 will be the same "size" as CM1 (i.e. company sized).No, not exactly. Right now, CM can field up to a brigade on each side on the same map, and many scenarios have entire battalions depicted. Steve has said that a reinforced company will likely be an upper limit in CMX2. So CMX2 will be substantially smaller. </font>[/QUOTE]But Steve has always said that CMx1 was intended to be a company+ sized game.

-dale

[dalem]

Originally posted by JC_Hare:
What I meant to say, but was taking a shortcut is that CM1 was "sized" around a tank, and more specifically around a 1944-45 tank, Sherman, Panther, Tiger, etc.

Put a Sherman or Panther on a CM1 map and it's just the right size. It's clear that the game was designed around the one tank concept. The infantry units were chosen so that the unit size (i.e. squad) would make sense in relation to the one tank concept. From everything I have read, it looks like CM2 is also designed around the central one tank concept and that it's primary focus will be Tank combat, not that there's anything wrong with that :cool: . CM is the scale that it is because that's the niche they wanted to fill - the Squad Leader scale of squads, weapons teams, and individual AFV.

-dale

[jeffsmith]

Steves comments in his first post in the Units & Control thread

HERE (http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=52;t=000020)

would seem to indicate a "type" of warfare seen during WWII or after

[Tagwyn]

I would also guess it will be in WWII. A chance to remake CMBO and expand its coverage to include the entire war!! TAG

[Bonxa]

We got wheeled vehicles, grenades, slightly off standard TOEs and urban combat. If it ain't WWII it must be something very much like it. smile.gif

[Brent Pollock]

WWII.1 :D

[juan_gigante]

It won't be WWII Pacific - Steve said in the landing craft thread that they weren't going to have them, and you can't have Pacific WWII without landing craft.

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by juan_gigante:
It won't be WWII Pacific - Steve said in the landing craft thread that they weren't going to have them, and you can't have Pacific WWII without landing craft. He said a lot more than that previously - namely the design team have no interest in the Pacific Theatre, especially with regards to CM1, but didn't rule out the possibility at some distant time in the future for CMX2, though it still seemed unlikely to be an avenue they would pursue.

[ASHBERY76]

They will play it safe no doubt,ie Normandy to get US dollars.

[juan_gigante]

Dorosh, I noticed you've calmed down on 1939 Eastern Europe/Finland. Is something wrong?

[yuvuphys]

I'd be surprised if one of the two wasn't WWII, but what about the other title? Something spanning Alexander's conquests would provide a lot of different units and countries to play with. If you want to pander to the US crowd, maybe Revolutionary War?

[juan_gigante]

But no tanks. Tanks are key. Besides, CM is small unit actions, not big stuff. I predict the two will be WWII ETO, likely west front, and US/UN vs. North Korea/China(?) set in 2006.

[Emar]

Well lets think about this. The CM2 threads have stated that the average unit size for each side will be about a Company with maybe a few support units with larger sizes possible in later releases as hardware improves( this would equate to no bigger than a 'tiny" or the short side of a "small" battle in CM1 terms ). I would think as a general rule that this in itself would preclude any pre WWII release for the game as I would think you would want a larger force size available to accurately portray most battles(ie if you did the Civil War you might be able to do a Jeb Stuart small raid or some such but the average battle would be out, same for Napoleon era, WWI etc. Way too small to do a serious engagement in horse and single shot days) ;)

Now a lot of posts include mention of grenades, tanks, vehicles, etc. so most likely latter half of 20th century. Company size actions make sense in the WWII context.

Now as to the posibility of post WWII action. I see a big reason why this might not be the subject of the first releases. The crew at BF have been working plenty hard on this new game engine. In the gaming world extra time spent on getting a new product out costs money and allows competition to catch up with you (though I have not seen anyone take a serious shot at BF's throne). Also technology marches on. How many times have we seen other game companies spend years developing a "cutting edge" game only to have the development take so long that when it is released it is not cutting edge any more.

My point is this, the tank, vehicle and unit data and OOB for WWII has already been assimulated by BF. They know what armor a Tiger has, what a 76mm gun will penetrate and how fast a Sherman goes. Now I ask you would you as a developer put all of your time into your new game engine which down the road could be used by your self or farmed out to others to do battles in all timelines of history? (and make you money sooner as well) Or would you spend half your time researching laser sighting, helicopters, computer gunnery, guided missiles, thermal imagery, modern OOB, etc. etc. into your first new game.

Now I would give Korea a big if (mostly WWII equipment and company action just fine there), but other than that I don't see the first 2 releases being anything but WWII :D

Of course I have been known to be wrong from time to time. I was divorced twice :rolleyes:

[ August 26, 2005, 03:35 PM: Message edited by: Emar ]

[Battlefront.com]

Remember that my comments about stuff are always directed at discussion what the game engine is capable of, not necessarily what is going to be in the first release. I've mentioned everything from horse cavalry to Space Lobsters... that's quite a range and it is interesting to see people only picking out the things they want to see. People are sooooo funny that way :D

Steve

[juan_gigante]

But they've also said that they're getting a little bored of WWII. So bored vs. a bunch done already kind of balances out, I think. Which is why one WWII, one not seems pretty reasonable to me.

[flamingknives]

Originally posted by Battlefront.com:
Remember that my comments about stuff are always directed at discussion what the game engine is capable of, not necessarily what is going to be in the first release. I've mentioned everything from horse cavalry to Space Lobsters... that's quite a range and it is interesting to see people only picking out the things they want to see. People are sooooo funny that way :D

Steve A-ha!
If we take the arithmetic mean of Space Lobsters and Horse Cavalry, we get WWII. It's all a conspiracy masterminded by the Saucer People
AHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAH

*runs off to get tinfoil hat*

[Salkin]

I AM NOT BORED OF WW2 !!!

There, I said it, and I'll say it again if needs be. I have taken a loooooong brake in CM just to be ready for the next installment of "Combat Mission:Hitler must die II" .

//Salkin
(Name of game may change)

[Pvt. Ryan]

It's been about six years since a quality WWII strategy game was released. I'm ready for another one.

[Emar]

I'm all about WWII too!. But I would not mind trying a Korea game either. Could be fun Shermans and Pershings vs. T-34's and it is certainly a theater that has not been overdone in the gaming world ;)

Plus I had a few family members in that one. Some real tough fights from what I have heard.

[ August 26, 2005, 03:35 PM: Message edited by: Emar ]

[aka_tom_w]

did Steve ever out and out say NO to Korea
(like he did to the Cold War "potential" confllict)

or is Korea still very much alive and possibly on the drawing board....

Korea was on his list was it not?

YUP there it is NUMBER 3 on the list!

this was the "off the top of his head" list from last May



posted June 03, 2005 11:34 PM
Battlefront.com
Administrator
Member # 42

posted May 19, 2005 01:20 PM
CMx2 allows us to, in theory, do all of the following game settings, each of which could constitute many stand alone games (i.e. setting is too big for one game):

WWII ETO
WWII PTO
1950s Korea
2000s Korea
WWI
Napoleonics
US Civil War
100 Years War
Medival
Ancient (European)
Ancient (Asian)
Contemporary
Cold War
Near Future
Far Future
Fantasy (D&D style)
Alien Invasion
Post Apocalyptic

And probably a whole bunch of things I just didn't think of in 1 minute

The point is that as long as the combat is predominantly ground based, CMx2 can do pretty much anything. Certainly it could do all of the above, though with differing amounts of effort of course. So when I say we have a Top 5 List (which in a formal sense we don't), there is a lot of theoretical possibillities out there for us to pursue. Inluding all 5 being WWII ETO to all 5 being Fantasy, even though we would never enslave ourselves to just one genre for the next 5 years.

Steve

[juan_gigante]

Keep in mind - I don't mean the old 1950s Korean War. I'm talking about wholly hypothetical war set a fes years in the future, wherein the US and allies go onto the ground to take down North Korea, which may have Chinese support just to make it interesting.

[Cpl Steiner]

Lets see how recent wars stack up in the eyes of the average guy in the street (i.e. not your typical war buff, who will buy the game anyway).

Pre WWII - No-one can remember it.
Korea - Some sort of dodgy UN police action that, again, most people can't remember.
Vietnam - Even more dodgy
Iraq - Forget it!

WWII - Good versus Evil. Saving Private Ryan. Band of Brothers. Practically every decent war film ever made.

Bingo!

[Emar]

Nice pull on that list Tom. WWII and 50's Korea are the top ones on it. :cool:

I think the future Korea battle might be cool too but I just don't see them taking the time to research modern weapons, computer powered and laser guided equipment and munitions, composite armor tanks, etc.. Not to mention modern OOB, and unit tactics for a first release. Maybe down the line but too much time spent on things other than the engine for now. 50's Korea on the other hand uses vehicles and equipment whose charactoristics have already been calculated.(Sherman,s T-34's, PPSH, Garand, Pershing, Browning mg, BAR, etc.etc.)

Of course I have been known to be wrong from time to time. I was divorced twice. :rolleyes:

[ August 26, 2005, 05:07 PM: Message edited by: Emar ]

[Midnight Warrior]

Arguments for why the first game may be Korea 50-53

1. Even though there were not a lot of big armor vs armor battles both sides had lots of different vehicle types (even if the the Communist didn't have large numbers of them). However, there are not so many vehicle types as to take forever to develop them. And more polygons mean longer time to develop a given vehicle. Thus in Korea there can be a lot of vehicle types but not too many so that the time to market gets too long.

2. These vehicles once developed can largely be reused on both sides for WWII scenarios since most of them are WWII era vehicles.

3. Korea gives a welcome break from WWII burn out but still allows them to take advantage of their WWII data bases.

4. Some of the late war cool vehilces and weapons that didn't see much action such as Pershings, recoiless rifles, etc. get a chance to be more prominent.

5. Though there are lots of different nationalities for the UN there is only North Korean and Chinese units to worry about on the communist side so that there aren't as many nationalities that have to be modeled that would increase time to market.

6. The infantry oriented nature of the conflict shows off the 1:1 better than heavy armored engagements.

7. Pitting US vehcles against Russian is intriguing and has lots of intellectual appeal. Potential for lots of what if scenarios.

8. Lots of historical data available in addition to the reuse of WW2 data

9. A really good game on the Korean war would probably get rave reviews from the gaming community

10. Korean War title is not a good title in a Best Buy sales environment but there is a glut of WWII games in that market and CMX2 is not trslly competing in that market. The Korean war title plus good reviews, cool graphics (but probably not that much better than the RTS out there), plus the CM 1,2, & 3 reputation should not only generate sales but whet people's appetite for the next modules that might then go back to WWII for both ETO, East Front, Med, and PTO.

11. Perhaps helos might be included in that they did make a debut in the combat roles in Korea.

12. This would provide a spring board in which to spring back to WWII or spring forard to the Middle East, Nam, etc.

13. The two company sized battle limit would fit in a Korean war scenario better than many WWII scenarios except early PTO like Guadacanal, Philippines, Indonesia, etc.

14. Not too many different types of terrain to have to initially model.

15. It would be fun to play!

16. It's time for the "Forgotten War" to be remembered!

[Neutral Party]

Of course it will be WW2 - like duh!
Western Europe 92.75%
Eatern Front 7.24%
Something else 0.01%

chances of these numbers being wrong 42.725%

[Michael Dorosh]

Arguments for why the first game may be <font color="blue">Finland 1939</font>

1. Even though there were not a lot of big armor vs armor battles both sides had lots of different vehicle types (even if the the Communist didn't have large numbers of them). However, there are not so many vehicle types as to take forever to develop them. And more polygons mean longer time to develop a given vehicle. Thus in Finland there can be a lot of vehicle types but not too many so that the time to market gets too long.

2. These vehicles once developed can largely be reused on both sides for WWII scenarios since most of them are late WWII era vehicles.

3. Finland/Poland gives a welcome break from "Nazi" burn out but still allows them to take advantage of their WWII data bases.

4. Some of the late war cool vehilces (sic) and weapons that didn't see much action such as JS IIs and IIIs, King Tigers, etc., don't have to be coded.

5. Though there are lots of different nationalities for the Allies there is only Soviet Union units to worry about on the communist side so that there aren't as many nationalities that have to be modeled that would increase time to market.

6. The infantry oriented nature of the conflict shows off the 1:1 better than heavy armored engagements.

7. Pitting Finnish/Polish vehcles against Russian is intriguing and has lots of intellectual appeal. Potential for lots of what if scenarios especially if Japanese troops and a Manchuria theatre are included.

8. Lots of historical data available in addition to the reuse of WW2 data, just ask the Finns on the board!

9. A really good game on the Finnish War would probably get rave reviews from the gaming community in Finland

10. Finnish War title is not a good title in a Best Buy sales environment but there is a glut of Eastern/Western Front WWII games in that market and CMX2 is not trully (sic) competing in that market. The Finnish war title plus good reviews, cool graphics (but probably not that much better than the RTS out there), plus the CM 1,2, & 3 reputation should not only generate sales but whet people's appetite for the next modules that might then go back to ETO, East Front, Med, and PTO.

11. Perhaps reindeer sleds and Pullkas might be included in that they did make a debut in the combat roles in Finland.

12. This would provide a spring board in which to spring back to WWII.

13. The two company sized battle limit would fit in a Finnish war scenario better than many WWII scenarios except early PTO like Guadacanal, Philippines, Indonesia, etc.

14. Not too many different types of terrain to have to initially model.

15. It would be fun to play!

16. It's time for the "Forgotten War" to be remembered!

Ayo Gurkhali

[ August 26, 2005, 07:12 PM: Message edited by: Michael Dorosh ]

[Gordon]

Originally posted by Battlefront.com:
Remember that my comments about stuff are always directed at discussion what the game engine is capable of, not necessarily what is going to be in the first release. I've mentioned everything from horse cavalry to Space Lobsters... that's quite a range and it is interesting to see people only picking out the things they want to see. People are sooooo funny that way :D

Steve As long as we're going to be able to have mounted space lobsters executing saber charges, I'm happy. :cool:

[Michael Dorosh]

Arguments for why the first game may be Juno Beach to <font color="brown">Falaise July-Aug 1944 on the Canadian Front</font>

1. Even though there were a lot of big armor vs armor battles and both sides had lots of different vehicle types, the Krauts didn't have large numbers of them. However, there are not so many vehicle types as to take forever to develop them. And more polygons mean longer time to develop a given vehicle. Thus in JUNO TO FALAISE there can be a lot of vehicle types but not too many so that the time to market gets too long.

2. These vehicles once developed can largely be reused on both sides for WWII scenarios since most of them were used for the rest of WWII.

3. Juno to Tractable gives a welcome break from North Africa/Italy burn out but still allows them to take advantage of their WWII data bases.

4. Some of the late war cool vehilces (sic) and weapons that didn't see much action such as Pershings, recoiless rifles, etc. get a chance to be totally ignored.

5. Though there are lots of different nationalities for the Germans (SS, Luft Felddivisioned, Luft Para, Heer) there is only Canadian units to worry about on the Allied side so that there aren't as many nationalities that have to be modeled that would increase time to market.

6. The combined-arms nature of the conflict shows off the 1:1 better than infantry only engagements.

7. Pitting crappy US-made vehcles (sic) against German is intriguing and has lots of intellectual appeal. Potential for lots of what if scenarios.

8. Lots of historical data available in addition to the reuse of WW2 data from CMBO

9. A really good game on the Canadians in Normandy would probably get rave reviews from the gaming community if they're drunk enough

10. Juno to Falaise title is not a good title in a Best Buy sales environment but there is a glut of WWII games in that market and CMX2 is not trslly (sic) competing in that market. The Canadians in Normandy title plus good reviews, cool graphics (but probably not that much better than the RTS out there), plus the CM 1,2, & 3 reputation should not only generate sales but whet people's appetite for the next modules that might then go back to ETO, East Front, Med, and PTO.

11. Perhaps bagpipes might be included in that they did make their final debut in the combat roles in Normandy.

12. This would provide a spring board in which to spring back to NW Europe or spring forard (sic) to the Middle East, Nam, etc. and the glorious days of Peacekeeping as envisioned by Lester Pearson

13. The two company sized battle limit would fit in a Normandy war scenario better than many WWII scenarios except early PTO like Guadacanal, Philippines, Indonesia, etc. as the Canadians ALWAYS attacked two companies up, two companies back, with a cry of "hey diddle-diddle, straight up the middle!"

14. Not too many different types of terrain to have to initially model. Like, wheatfields, orchards, and run-down villages with bad cheese and unfermented Calvados.

15. It would be fun to play!

16. It's time for the "Forgotten War" to be remembered!

[Michael Dorosh]

Arguments for why the first game may be <font color="green">Guadalcanal 42-43</font>

1. Even though there were not a lot of big armor vs armor battles both sides had lots of different vehicle types (even if the the Japs didn't have large numbers of them). However, there are not so many vehicle types as to take forever to develop them. And more polygons mean longer time to develop a given vehicle. Thus on the Canal there can be a lot of vehicle types but not too many so that the time to market gets too long.

2. These vehicles once developed can largely be reused on both sides for WWII scenarios since most of them are late WWII era vehicles.

3. Guadalcanal gives a welcome break from Down in Flames burn out but still allows them to take advantage of their WWII data bases.

4. Some of the late war cool vehilces and weapons that didn't see much action such as Pershings, recoiless rifles, etc. get a chance to be cast aside like a set of Emrys' Odor Eaters after a long week.

5. Though there are lots of different nationalities for the US (Marines, Army, Seabees) there is only IJA and SNLF units to worry about on the Jap side so that there aren't as many nationalities that have to be modeled that would increase time to market.

6. The infantry oriented nature of the conflict shows off the 1:1 better than heavy armored engagements.

7. Pitting US testicles (sic) against coral snakes is intriguing and has lots of intellectual appeal. Potential for lots of what if scenarios.

8. Lots of historical data available in addition to the reuse of later WW2 data

9. A really good game on the Pacific war would probably get rave reviews from the gaming community and get them to STFU about the Pacific already!!! :mad:

10. Pacific War title is not a good title in a Best Buy sales environment but there is a glut of WWII games in that market and CMX2 is not trslly (sic) competing in that market. The Guadalcanal war title plus good reviews, cool graphics (but probably not that much better than the RTS out there), plus the CM 1,2, & 3 reputation should not only generate sales but whet people's appetite for the next modules that might then go back to ETO, East Front, Med, and PTO.

11. Perhaps George Clooney might be included in that he did make a debut in combat roles in that ****ty movie with Madonna's husband..

12. This would provide a spring board in which to spring back to later WWII or spring forard(sic) to the Middle East, Nam, etc.

13. The two company sized battle limit would fit in a Korean war scenario better than many WWII scenarios except early PTO like Guadacanal, Philippines, Indonesia, etc. OOOOPS. **** *shrugs*

14. Not too many different types of terrain to have to initially model. Like coconut trees, palm fronds, coconut groves, palm forests, coconut orchards, and palm bushes.

15. It would be fun to play!

16. It's time for the "Forgotten War" to be remembered!

[Brent Pollock]

Okay - knock it off already - I just sent the turn so you can turn your attention to that instead :D

[Michael Dorosh]

Arguments for why the first game may be <font color="tan">Seanachai vs. a Fifth of Scotch</font>

1. Even though there were not a lot of big armor vs armor battles in Minnesota or whatever no-nickname State he claims to be a resident of, both the State Police and the local sherrif had lots of different vehicle types (even if the Bard didn't have the means to recognize them). However, there are not so many vehicle types as to take forever to develop them. And more polygons mean longer time to develop a given vehicle. Thus in Seanachai's neighbourhood there can be a lot of vehicle types but not too many so that he can't evade them by slithering through the sewer like the wriggly worm he is.

2. These vehicles once developed can largely be riddled with machinegun fire during WWII training scenarios since most of them are highly flammable and 'splodey.

3. Seanachai gives a welcome break from actual human being burn out but still allows them to take advantage of their WWII data bases - as most of his undershorts hail from that era, handed down from generation to generation of Bards and Gnomes.

4. Some of the late war cool vehilces and weapons that didn't see much action such as Pershings, recoiless rifles, etc. get a chance to be more prominent when Seanachai gets drunk next to the Smithsonian and tries to find a place to pee.

5. Though there are lots of different nationalities for Seanachai to make drunken slurs about, there is only Asian units to worry about on the television news since his TV only gets "community access", that community being Chinatown where the rent fits his means.

6. The infantry oriented nature of the conflict in Seanachai's soul shows off the 1:1 better than heavy armored engagements.

7. Pitting Seanachai's Honda against the United States Seventh Fleet is intriguing and has lots of intellectual appeal. Potential for lots of what if scenarios. Like, how many ways can you make the little poet pay for what he'd done to us all these years?

8. Lots of historical data available in addition to the reuse of Seanachai's vital and donatable organs

9. A really good game on Seanachai war would probably get rave reviews from the lunatic fringe, now headquartered permanently in the Peng Thread and accounting for 8,000 of BFC's registered posters

10. Seanachai Exposes Himself title is not a good title in a Best Buy sales environment but there is a glut of diseased vermin in that market and CMX2 is not trslly competing in that market. The Seanachai title plus good reviews, cool graphics (but probably not that much better than the RTS out there), plus the CM 1,2, & 3 reputation should not only generate sales but whet people's appetite for the next modules that might then go back to WWII for both ETO, East Front, Med, and PTO.

11. Perhaps helos might be included in that they did make a debut in spotting the Bard from the air when he takes to stumbling home from Ogara's Bar and Grill (http://www.ogaras.com/) .

12. This would provide a spring board in which to spring back to reality or spring forard to the multiple recurring sequels based on Forum personalities: JasonC vs. the Calculator, dalem vs. the North Koreans, and Mace vs. The Flock

13. The two company sized battle limit would fit in a drunken brawl scenario better than many WWII scenarios except early PTO like Guadacanal, Philippines, Indonesia, etc., though Guadalcanal was a little like a drunken brawl in Michigan or wherever the hell the Gnome is from, but without the Indian chants

14. Not too many different types of terrain to have to initially model. A sewer, a liquor store, a flop house and perhaps an internet cafe.

15. It would be fun to play!

16. It's time for the "Forgotten War" to be well and truly immortalized; the quicker we do that, the quicker we can forget it!

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by Brent Pollock:
Okay - knock it off already - I just sent the turn so you can turn your attention to that instead :D Sorry - had one more good one left in me!

EDIT - turn sent - hope my email still isn't acting up...or yours....as the case may be

[ August 26, 2005, 08:33 PM: Message edited by: Michael Dorosh ]

[lucero1148]

The speculations are getting pretty wild so my 2 cents would be that we're going to see something contempoary like the 1990 Gulf War and a mideval war simulation.

Why? It's a popular time period for gamer's. Also how many years have BFC been working on making this CMX engine? Plenty of time I would guess to do the research for a 1990's Gulf War simulation minus the air war aspect.

As for Mideval war, why not? It would be a great way to show off the flexibility of the game engine and its capabilities.
Patrick

[dangerousdave]

Isn't it high time for:

Greneda, 1983. The Gipper's War.

???

[dalem]

Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:
Arguments for why the first game may be <font color="tan">Seanachai vs. a Fifth of Scotch</font>
Scotch loses.

I've seen it.

It's not pretty.

Ever wake up and stumble out to the living room to find a gnome passed out on the couch?

Safety Tip from Igon: Don't stand in your kitchen at 4am and ask Seanachai if he's "Up for a couple of shots of bourbon".

Because he is.

-dale

[melb_will]

Why I think that Korea will definitely not be the next CM module.

Battlefront has consistently said that It will not be returning to the whole theatre approach seen in CMx1.

Can you imanagine the amount of work researching the Korean conflict. You propose to include all the UN armies, the early and late war. It will not happen. I suspect the first module will be somthing that Battlefront already has ample data sets on. Bulge or Normandy or CM A Bridge to Far (not ripped off ;) )The second module could well be napoleonic but just a small part, ie Wellington's campaign on the Spanish penninsula a part of the Napoleonic era NOT covered by the upcoming Grognards game.

Cheers

Will

[junk2drive]

Something involving USA, Canada, UK, Aussies, NZ, (hint WWII or Korea) because these wargamers will run out and buy enough computer to play the game.
Then complain about what doesn't work and when is the patch coming out.

[Bigduke6]

It will be WW2 West Front 1944, with a start point June 1 and end point I don't know, it could be August and it could be November.

As I have said before, the thing driving the decision is cool tanks, as that in the final analysis is what sells a game like this. The coolest tank in history is Tiger I, the second is Panther, and the best-known opponents of those two vehicles are Sherman.

The West Front sells, Shermans whacked by ueber-armor sells. If BFI wants to make maximum money, they redo at least Americans vs. Germans in Normandy as the minimum, rake in the income, and then everything else is add-ons for an extra helpings of cash from the Commonwealth and East Front crowd that got ignored the first time around.

I really don't see why there needs to be all this mystery, frankly. Steve is saying we are being funny by reading our desires into the result, well, Normandy ain't my top desire, not even close.

Heck, I would almost prefer a chance at commanding Red Chinese hordes pouring across the Yalu, over another rendition of hedgegrows and ueber-panzers.

But it ain't my decision. If you were a game design company with your flagship product the world's best armored task force combat simulator, and it was set in WW2, what's the best framework for a sequel?

Korea? The Roman Empire? Spanish Tercios?

Or Battleground, Kelly's Heroes, and Private Ryan?

[Nelson 1812]

A working weekend here.. so to keep it brief,

POLAND 1940

Because it was the official start of World War Two, and it had horses...


and possiable lobsters

[Midnight Warrior]

The reindeer sleds sound pretty good to me but I have to admit I am torn between them and George Clooney!

[Grapeshot]

I think they made the CM2 game engine to make 6-8 games. I don't think the first one released will be ww2. They did state somewhere in these posts games 1 and 2 off the new engine.

I am guess we will get a modern or near future conflict first. Then very soon after a ww2 western front. 6-8 months eastern front, 6 months far future, 6 months ancient, 6 months lobster. I think they made this engine to last a very long time over 6+ games. That is why the specs will be pretty high so it can last 5 years or so and still look good. Just my 2cents

[WineCape]

It will be a WWII "slice" - trust me ;)

[Sgt Joch]

Originally posted by Battlefront.com:
Remember that my comments about stuff are always directed at discussion what the game engine is capable of, not necessarily what is going to be in the first release. I've mentioned everything from horse cavalry to Space Lobsters... that's quite a range and it is interesting to see people only picking out the things they want to see. People are sooooo funny that way :D

Steve If you read through the lines and squint a lot, you will see he just confirmed the first game will be set in NW Europe 1944-45. :D

[Emar]

Yeah I could definately see the first release being something like the "Road To St. Lo" or something along those lines (would be a good demonstation of the layered terrain). I would think that the second release might be a something like a "Stalingrad" module. Lets face it, the reason there are so many WWII games being marketed is that WWII still "sells" more than any other conflict in history.

If they did do Korea I think it would also be on small scale, not something that includes all the nations. "Chosin" or some other battleground.

[Sirocco]

I've said it before, the safest move would be the first GAME to be Western Europe, the second GAME to be the Eastern Front, with follow-up MODULES for both. Given the time invested in development I can't see BFC taking risks, at least with the first releases.

[Midnight Warrior]

If they did do Korea I think it would also be on small scale, not something that includes all the nations. "Chosin" or some other battleground.
Ah! Do we now know the name of the first CMX2 module...the Chosin Few... or perhaps the Frozen Chosin

[ August 27, 2005, 07:16 AM: Message edited by: Midnight Warrior ]

[Cpl Steiner]

I've said it before, the safest move would be the first GAME to be Western Europe, the second GAME to be the Eastern Front, with follow-up MODULES for both. Given the time invested in development I can't see BFC taking risks, at least with the first releases.I wonder, is there any significance in the fact that Battlefront have repeated talked about "the first two games" being announced soon, not just one. This would fit in with Sirocco's theory of a Western Front game followed by an Eastern Front game.

[Sequoia]

Originally posted by Nelson 1812:
A working weekend here.. so to keep it brief,

POLAND 1940

Because it was the official start of World War Two, and it had horses...


and possiable lobsters :confused: What occupational duty. I'm sure you mean 1939.

[Nelson 1812]

Oh.. never were one with dates...

[Emar]

Speculation will run rampant for a few more weeks. I don't really have a problem with the "downsizing" of the scope and unit size in these initial releases, especially if they are in a WWII context. A whole battle on a 1:1 infantry man scale for a city block in Stalingrad or Berlin, or for a couple of fields and orchards in France or the Ardennes could be pretty cool!( is this not the average unit scale for almost all of the most popular WWII movies and TV shows)

But with the downsizing of the maximum size battleground to the level of a "tiny" or three quarter size "small" battle in CM1 terms I don't understand how earlier periods would play out. With about a 100 units or so per side and guessing that cavalry units would count as 2 units (rider and horse like a vehicle and it's passengers) don't really see what kind of engagements would be feasible for Napoleon, American civil war, Crimean war, Roman or medieval times, etc. Foraging party? scouting behind enemy lines? local raid on a small town? secret shopping outing? Road trip to Daytona beach?

Would think you would want at the barest minimum a battalion size unit to portray these time periods. Of course down the line as hardware improves this would be more feasible and all would be right with the world. :D

[ August 27, 2005, 09:11 AM: Message edited by: Emar ]

[Cpl Steiner]

Emar,

If you think in terms of a table top miniatures wargame, the CMx2 engine could just be the code that renders the terrain and figures, with lots of "hooks" into it that can be accessed by other more genre-specific code. If that is the case, 1 figure might represent 1 man in one game using the engine, or 100 in another. I'm pretty sure the word "engine" in the computer games industry refers more to the rendering software than the actual game.

[Battlefront.com]

You guys are too much :D So very few of you have even considered the fact that WWII might not be the first game or that it might not even be the second or third. I'm not saying that is the case, but nothing I have ever said has "hinted" at the sorts of things you guys are talking about here. I've been purposefully vague and therefore trying to read the tea leaves of someone who drinks beer is rather futile :D

Steve

[Pvt. Ryan]

Originally posted by Battlefront.com:
You guys are too much :D So very few of you have even considered the fact that WWII might not be the first game or that it might not even be the second or third. I'm not saying that is the case, but nothing I have ever said has "hinted" at the sorts of things you guys are talking about here. I've been purposefully vague and therefore trying to read the tea leaves of someone who drinks beer is rather futile :D

Steve Well, that settles it. The first title for CMx2 will be Road Rage: Weasels Run Amok.

[yuvuphys]

I'm looking for:
Chess: The Pawns Take Over IV
Soccer Moms: SUV Rage

Of the two, one will be semi-modern American war (WWII, Korea), and the other will be Ancient Rome/Greece if the size of the battlefield isn't too big. Both have sold big recently, and have the ability to do so again. Plus the research is already done/easily accessable.

But lastly, my favorite title,
SARS v. Bird Flu: The Assault on Human Kind

[Cull]

If it's not WWII, I will eat my hat.
And if it's not fairly "mainstream"/major allies-centric WWII at that (read: not Finland '39 nor Balkins '41 nor certainly anything not European theatre, for known reasons), I will further eat my socks.

No offense whatsoever intended to non-Yanks, Brits, etc. I'm just considering market factors here. Well, and my own wishes, of course ;)

I just can't imagine they would launch CMx2 with something like "Combat Mission 2: Tito's Troublemakers", or a less epic conflict like Korea or Vietnam.

Later modules, hey, all bets are off.

I could be wrong, but I sure hope not.

[ August 27, 2005, 11:31 PM: Message edited by: Cull ]

[Grapeshot]

I still bet between the first 2 games one is not WW2

[Michael Emrys]

I think the first game will be "Tax Audit: The CPAs Are Going Over the Numbers and They Have Yours".

This will be followed shortly by a series of sequels "Tax Audit 2: Trying to Cut a Deal"; "Tax Audit 3: Finding a Lawyer"; and "Tax Audit 4: Interesting Things to Talk About While Doing 5-10 in the Federal Pen".

Michael

[aka_tom_w]

This sounds GOOD to me

ETO???
First game out the door (or some smaller sub section of ETO post D-day)

:D

Did anyone else catch this?

HEDGE ROWS ARE coming to CMx2!!!!

Beyond that I can't comment because we have not coded hedgerows or hedges yet. I expect that they can be damaged, along with walls and other forms of terrain.

Battlefront.com
Administrator
Member # 42

posted August 27, 2005 01:12 AM
Terrain is deformable. Beyond that I can't comment because we have not coded hedgerows or hedges yet. I expect that they can be damaged, along with walls and other forms of terrain.

Unit footprint is smaller than 8x8. There is no unit I can think of that would be larger than that. However, a foot unit that is on the move might be spread out more than 8x8. There are special considerations for this.

Dynamic lighting... honestly not sure. In theory we can have sources anyplace, anytime, and to any degree we wish. I just don't know what is practical at this point.

Steve

[von Churov]

Originally posted by Battlefront.com:
it is interesting to see people only picking out the things they want to see. People are sooooo funny that way :D

Steve Might be!
But also, you want to sell the game to that people...so you might want to comply with what their wishes.
This is a sort of market research for you...
...and the results are quite clear.

Anything else than WWII would be a quite failure.

You see what people want, so it will be what they will get. POWER TO THE PEOPLE!!! :D

Also, WWII offers a widest variety of troops and theaters, historical battles, weapons, equipment, etc.
In the begining the WWI tankettes were common thing in all the armies...It (WWII) ended up with t34's which were stil used in the exYugoslavia conflict. Or...It started with biplanes, and it ended up with jet planes...
So, the variety of equipment is stunning and challenging. And good for selling the game too :D


And the historical accuracy is one of the most atracitve things in this game...In WWII there are the battles that everybody knows about, and it's much gamier to play the game where you know the historical context.
(How many are there to name 3 major battles in Korea within a minute without use of external aid?)

It's definitely the WWII. The only question is which timeframe and which theater.

Poland-Norway-France 39-40 would be an interesting bundle pack. But Normandy is the most probable result...trust me! ;)

[flamingknives]

I still want Cold War era.

[Pvt. Ryan]

Originally posted by von Churov:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Battlefront.com:
it is interesting to see people only picking out the things they want to see. People are sooooo funny that way :D

Steve Might be!
But also, you want to sell the game to that people...so you might want to comply with what their wishes.
This is a sort of market research for you...
...and the results are quite clear.

Anything else than WWII would be a quite failure.
</font>[/QUOTE]You base that on what has been said here. If the question were asked on a Hello Kitty forum you would likely get a different answer.

[hellfish]

We should start a pool going - where and when will the first CMx2 game take place? I'll throw in $5 on WWII NW Europe and I'll split the pool with anyone who agrees with me.

Is there a gambling website we can set this up at? smile.gif

[Battlefront.com]

HEDGE ROWS ARE coming to CMx2!!!!Remember this is a general discussion about what the engine is capable of. I've mentioned Space Lobsters and horse cavalry too. That doesn't mean that they will be in the first 10 games... just means the engine can support it if we should so choose. So just because I mentioned hedgerows doesn't mean anything. Now, if I said "they are already coded and working great" then you could make some assumptions :D

But also, you want to sell the game to that people...so you might want to comply with what their wishes.Yeah, but nobody can agree on anything :D Take a look at the three CMx1 offerings. All WWII, right? Well, how many people here have sounded off about not having any interest in the Eastern Front or the Med Theater? More than I can count. So let's not forget that there is no single group to cater to.

Anything else than WWII would be a quite failure.Hehe... well, if we followed "in the box" thinking like this we would never have made CM to begin with. I can say for sure that quite a few of the game ideas we are planning on introducing over the years are not WWII based. Variety is the spice of life! Plus, there are plenty of people that think WWII is boring. Obviously we all disagree, but that doesn't change the other people's minds any.

Steve

[Soddball]

So your first game will model the Great Bakery Wars of 19th July, 1648, in the Funenhufel district of Old Amsterdam?

I can't wait. Battle loaves, here we come!!

[dalem]

CM: War of the Spanish Succession

[Ace Pilot]

I'm thinking that if BFC has put half the effort into making CMx2 that Steve has into convincing us that the first game isn't WWII, it will be quite the game... ;)

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by Battlefront.com:
So just because I mentioned hedgerows doesn't mean anything. Now, if I said "they are already coded and working great" then you could make some assumptions :D So, uh...how are they coming?

;)

Michael

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by dalem:
CM: War of the Spanish Succession Could be the War of Jenkin's Ear.

Michael

[stoat]

CM: The Whiskey Rebellion.

[Pvt. Ryan]

Originally posted by dalem:
CM: War of the Spanish Succession No one expects the Spanish Succession.

I just finished reading "The Pirate Coast." The battle of Derne would be a good candidate if BFC can get sailing ships and cavalry coded properly.

[hellfish]

Originally posted by Battlefront.com:
Plus, there are plenty of people that think WWII is boring. Obviously we all disagree, but that doesn't change the other people's minds any.

Steve As one of the leading advocates of a non-WWII CMX2 game (for the first title) I'd like to offer this - I think nearly everyone likes WWII. I certainly think it's incredibly interesting subject matter.

My concern is that it's been overdone in today's gaming environment. We've got every other title under the sun is WWII based now. We've got CMBO, CMBB, and CMAK, all of which I still play.

I'm asking... begging... for a breath of fresh air. Korea (modern or '50s), Cold War, Modern, Near Future... anything... just please... no more Bastogne.

Say it with me, everyone! NO MORE BASTOGNE! NO MORE BASTOGNE!

At least for the first game. smile.gif

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by fytinghellfish:
NO MORE BASTOGNE! NO MORE BASTOGNE!Okay! Okay! Okay! :mad:

How about Elsenborn Ridge then?

:D

Michael

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by fytinghellfish:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Battlefront.com:
Plus, there are plenty of people that think WWII is boring. Obviously we all disagree, but that doesn't change the other people's minds any.

Steve As one of the leading advocates of a non-WWII CMX2 game (for the first title) I'd like to offer this - I think nearly everyone likes WWII. I certainly think it's incredibly interesting subject matter.

My concern is that it's been overdone in today's gaming environment. We've got every other title under the sun is WWII based now. We've got CMBO, CMBB, and CMAK, all of which I still play.

I'm asking... begging... for a breath of fresh air. Korea (modern or '50s), Cold War, Modern, Near Future... anything... just please... no more Bastogne.

Say it with me, everyone! NO MORE BASTOGNE! NO MORE BASTOGNE!

At least for the first game. smile.gif </font>[/QUOTE]Finland 1939 hasn't been done to death.

[Mike]

Nor Poland 1939, France 1940, or the whole Pacific Theatre including Burma.......

[JonS]

What about the weather-station war in Greenland?

[REVS]

My best bets, in order of release, are two games, just for starters (didn't they say that somewhere?):

1. Normandy
2. Korea

Why?

a) Normandy makes a guaranteed buck, and is the most popular choice, and updates CMBO, which is a pretty out-of-date game these days (remember the heroes who could run all day without getting tired?)

b) Korea announces to all and sundry "we're not just a WWII game company" but also doesn't need a huge change in equipment or men, so is not so hard to develop. It'll probably sell, too.

Space Lobsters need long, slow cooking in the pot before they're ready. That screaming noise you hear coming from the pot is just air escaping.

[Tero]

Hürtgenwald.

Heroic US vs evil Nazis. Outcome almost a tie. Terrain challenging.

Almost like Winter War (the Finland 1939 option), only with sexier and sellable opponents.

[JonS]

Originally posted by Tero:
Hürtgenwald.

Heroic US vs evil Nazis. Outcome almost a tie. Terrain challenging.

Almost like Winter War (the Finland 1939 option), only with sexier and sellable opponents. pfft - midgets vs. pygmies would be sexier and more saleable than Finns.

[Seanachai]

Originally posted by JonS:
pfft - midgets vs. pygmies would be sexier and more saleable than Finns. That's not true, Jon. My understanding is that many young Finns are sold on street-corners every day.

Mind you, it's a specialty market.

According to my sources, it's mainly older English and German men with erectile dysfunction, who primarily want 'someone to talk to', and who are willing to actually pay money to listen for hours to stories about who's Grandfather killed how many Russians with what minimal equipment.

It's all rather sad and demeaning, actually. Europe is still so badly scarred by that war...

[hellfish]

Originally posted by Seanachai:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by JonS:
pfft - midgets vs. pygmies would be sexier and more saleable than Finns. That's not true, Jon. My understanding is that many young Finns are sold on street-corners every day.
</font>[/QUOTE]I just bought two off of Ebay.

[Tero]

Originally posted by JonS:

pfft - midgets vs. pygmies would be sexier and more saleable than Finns.

It is rather curious how many more Finns turn up than midgets or pygmies in these kind of products. smile.gif

[Tero]

Originally posted by Seanachai:

That's not true, Jon. My understanding is that many young Finns are sold on street-corners every day.

Mind you, it's a specialty market.

According to my sources, it's mainly older English and German men with erectile dysfunction, who primarily want 'someone to talk to', and who are willing to actually pay money to listen for hours to stories about who's Grandfather killed how many Russians with what minimal equipment.

You would not believe the number of reclamations, returns and law suits because the customers do not know they have to listen to the yarns in Finnish sitting butt naked in a 100-120°C sauna while whipping themselves with birch branches and consuming a minimum of 1 liter of vodka or other booze.

Here is footage of how it is supposed to be done.

http://www.plugi.fi/paasivu/perkele11.avi

It's all rather sad and demeaning, actually. Europe is still so badly scarred by that war...

The war has nothing to do with it, actually. It is just that the central Europeans have forgotten how not to be politically correct.

[Tero]

Originally posted by fytinghellfish:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Seanachai:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by JonS:
pfft - midgets vs. pygmies would be sexier and more saleable than Finns. That's not true, Jon. My understanding is that many young Finns are sold on street-corners every day.
</font>[/QUOTE]I just bought two off of Ebay. </font>[/QUOTE]I hope you opted to take the booze package with them. Othewise it will cost you an arm and a leg just to keep them operational.

[von Churov]

Originally posted by Pvt. Ryan:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by von Churov:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Battlefront.com:
it is interesting to see people only picking out the things they want to see. People are sooooo funny that way :D

Steve Might be!
But also, you want to sell the game to that people...so you might want to comply with what their wishes.
This is a sort of market research for you...
...and the results are quite clear.

Anything else than WWII would be a quite failure.
</font>[/QUOTE]You base that on what has been said here. If the question were asked on a Hello Kitty forum you would likely get a different answer. </font>[/QUOTE]And if question has been asked on The Sims forum, we could get VEEEEERY different answer. Ha? :D

[von Churov]

Steve,
WWII is mother of all the wars.
If you want to make an ultimate war game...
You'll need an ultimate war! tongue.gif

So...it's definitely WWII.

My 5$ are in! smile.gif

EDIT:some spelling corrected! :eek:

[REVS]

More evidence, from the little Polygons thread...

"Originally posted by Battlefront.com:
Dan just made a wheeled vehicle that has more polies in one wheel than was in a CMBO tank
....
Steve "

Oh yeah, so they compared Dan's work on a CMX2 tank with the exact same tank in CMBO did they? Why make that comparison?

The evidence mounts. Crossword puzzles with the answers being "juno, sword etc" appear in the Times, making the organisers jittery. The evidence mounts, pointing towards an invasion on the French coast, methinks.

[REVS]

The perfect confluence. My 1000th post, and the 100th post here, in the WWII thread, which I'm betting on.

The stars are aligning nicely.

[ August 29, 2005, 01:37 AM: Message edited by: REVS ]

[Tero]

Originally posted by REVS:
More evidence, from the little Polygons thread...

"Originally posted by Battlefront.com:
Dan just made a wheeled vehicle that has more polies in one wheel than was in a CMBO tank
....
Steve "

Oh yeah, so they compared Dan's work on a CMX2 tank with the exact same tank in CMBO did they? Why make that comparison?

The evidence mounts. Crossword puzzles with the answers being "juno, sword etc" appear in the Times, making the organisers jittery. The evidence mounts, pointing towards an invasion on the French coast, methinks. And the highlighter letters spell: NARVIK. :D

[Kanonier Reichmann]

Originally posted by REVS:
More evidence, from the little Polygons thread...

"Originally posted by Battlefront.com:
Dan just made a wheeled vehicle that has more polies in one wheel than was in a CMBO tank
....
Steve "

Oh yeah, so they compared Dan's work on a CMX2 tank with the exact same tank in CMBO did they? Why make that comparison?
Since when did a tracked "tank" become a "wheeled vehicle"? :confused:

Regards

Jim R.

[REVS]

Coulda sworn tanks had wheels as part of the set-up

Regards

REVS r.

[WineCape]

Well, here in SA there are tanks running on wheels, judging by the way some drivers use them.

[patboy]

Like this one ?

http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/1959/amx10rc0671cn.th.jpg (http://img294.imageshack.us/my.php?image=amx10rc0671cn.jpg)

Pat

[Battlefront.com]

Kanonier Reichmann is correct... you guys are a bunch of "nancies" smile.gif In no way, shape or form, did I imply that Dan just built a model for CMx2 that was in CMBO. I just stated that one wheel of the vehicle he DID build has more polies in it than tanks found in CMBO. Probably some in CMBB too, though we bumpped the poly count up significantly for BB/AK so that is why I pointed to BO.

Hope that clears things up :D

But at least Revs scored 1000 and 100 at the same time ;)

Steve

[Sgt Joch]

Hmmm, I will probably be crucified for this, but I just can't resist...


Originally posted by Battlefront.com:
To put it into Normandy context, if you're fighting as part of a US division in July and August of 1944 you are not going to experience anything that specific division wouldn't have experienced. I KNEW IT! NW Europe 1944-45. :cool:

[undead reindeer cavalry]

nah, it'll be 1939 or 1940. :|

EDIT: Vietnam or Afghanistan would rock tho.

[Battlefront.com]

Hehe... I gritted my teeth when I wrote that example, but then again... I figured no matter what I wrote someone would say (seriously or in jest) that this means we're doing WWII NW Europe. I could have used "Sticky Frogs from the X Dimension" and people would have said "that example is so silly it is obviously just that... a silly example. Therefore the first game must really be WWII NW Europe". You guys are so predictable :D

Steve

[flamingknives]

Originally posted by Battlefront.com:
we're doing WWII NW Europe.
the first game must really be WWII NW Europe".
:D
Steve Do you see? Do you?
tongue.gif

[von Churov]

Originally posted by Battlefront.com:
You guys are so predictable :D

Steve May be...may be!

But...we will all see how unpredictable you guys were when you show up with CMx2.

Or how predictable you were all the time? :D :D :D

[Ted]

LoL,
Yes Steve, it seems like anything you say takes a new spin and comes back to haunt you.

In fact from a reply you have written on page four of this read I have proof the first game will be WWII:

[/QUOTE]I've mentioned....horse cavalry....., they will be in the first 10 games....I mentioned hedgerows..."they are already coded and working great"

Steve [/QB][/QUOTE]

Say no more... smile.gif

[Vergeltungswaffe]

Ted, your journalistic skills are downright amazing. You have a promising career in news butchering at a paper or tv station!

[Ted]

Yes, welcome to the news the way I want to hear it.

[juan_gigante]

One thing I think about is that the first two will be announced soon. Now, I'd be awful surprised if both weren't WWII, but I would be nearly as surprised if both were. After all, many people have given great reasons why one game would be WWII, but nobody (of those saying both WWII) has exactly explained why they would both be. Now, I think one would be WWII for all the good reasons people have said, and the other won't to show the versatility of the engine, get out of a rut, do new stuff, etc. I'm part of the near-future fan-club, myself. After all, who said it would be historical?

[simovitch]

Originally posted by von Churov:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Battlefront.com:
You guys are so predictable :D

Steve May be...may be!

But...we will all see how unpredictable you guys were when you show up with CMx2.

Or how predictable you were all the time? :D :D :D </font>[/QUOTE]They are probably going to release a non-WWII title first now, just to spite us. :mad:

[kipanderson]

Hi,

My usual rant on this subject is that we must all harden ourselves to the fact that not “every” release of CMX2 will do the trick for every fan of CM. This is the inevitable downside to so many releases, but more is of course still better than less. I will buy all of them, no point denying it, but a few months later some will no doubt be gathering dust on my hard drive.

For my part if there is a game set in NWE, plus one on the Eastern Front with a module or two for each, then I will be more than happy over the coming five years smile.gif Also, maybe foolishly, I would be very surprised if the two above mentioned settings were not covered at sometime in the life of CMX2 as they are the most popular. But may not make the first two titles.

There is also likely to be a modern setting in the cooker, which will also be fun. Great to have a new set of toys to play with. The technology matters to me, big part of the fun.

All in all the increase in titles will greatly add to the fun, but as stated above, inevitably some of the settings would not have made it on to my list.

Lots to look forward to smile.gif .

All the best,
Kip.
PS. Massive potential in a modern setting for making Battlefront lots of dosh. If they get a modern setting right they could attract large numbers of more casual gamers. Their $50 is worth just as much at that of Battlefront’s more hard-core fans such as us ;) .

[Sergei]

Originally posted by kipanderson:
PS. Massive potential in a modern setting for making Battlefront lots of dosh. If they get a modern setting right they could attract large numbers of more casual gamers. Their $50 is worth just as much at that of Battlefront’s more hard-core fans such as us ;) . Eh, no. WW2 is guaranteeably (???) less risky choice than some post-WW2 or fictional conflict. Just look at how much money SPR and BoB brought to Spielberg & Co.

[Kong]

Steve loves these threads, it's his way of torturing ya'll!! ;)

I'd be surprised if it was not WWII, Europe, 44-45 but on the flip side I have a strange desire for a game with crustaceans... call me crazy.

I'm a bit disappointed that the scale will be cut back some but I understand why. Some of my favorite battles have been the monsters, I'm talking Regiment size monsters. You get to a certain size and simply can't micro manage, you have to let the TacAI handle it. It's more of a big picture type fight, which fits my personality.

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by REVS:
More evidence, from the little Polygons thread...

"Originally posted by Battlefront.com:
Dan just made a wheeled vehicle that has more polies in one wheel than was in a CMBO tank
....
Steve "

Oh yeah, so they compared Dan's work on a CMX2 tank with the exact same tank in CMBO did they? Why make that comparison?I don't see anything in Steve's wording that specifies that it was "the exact same tank". In the passage that you quote, Steve says that it is a wheeled vehicle.

Why do we have to point these things out to you?

:rolleyes:

Michael

[REVS]

If only I read and posted more slowly... oh well, we live and learn.

Kanonier Reichmann has already visited that unfortunate pile of poo, but feel free to squat there and admire the stinking mess if that's your thing.

:rolleyes:

[dalem]

Originally posted by kipanderson:
PS. Massive potential in a modern setting for making Battlefront lots of dosh. If they get a modern setting right they could attract large numbers of more casual gamers. Their $50 is worth just as much at that of Battlefront’s more hard-core fans such as us ;) . I guess if the biggest thing we have to fool with is a reinforced couple of companies, i.e. the "combat team" scale that Steve mentioned, the maps themselves could get roomy enough for a Red Storm Rising type of slugfest with ATGWs and such.

Hell, I'd buy it as long as they don't make the Harpoon II "Ecuador vs. Peru" mistake.

Possible working title then, to avoid copyright issues: Combat Mission: Team Red Sox.


-dale

[dalem]

yummy yummy yummy, I've got double posts in my tummy.

[Panzer_M]

i am reading about the French in IndoChina post WWII, haven't gotten far into it, but it would be interesting for Battalion level and down.

although I would love to see ETO '40 to 45.

Battle of France also Norway possible, maybe Dieppe, then Overlord to Varsity.

There is no campaign to like 40 to 45, so it would be like CMAK with just different threathers incompassed into the game loosely.

[Reg Pither]

Originally posted by Sergei:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by kipanderson:
PS. Massive potential in a modern setting for making Battlefront lots of dosh. If they get a modern setting right they could attract large numbers of more casual gamers. Their $50 is worth just as much at that of Battlefront’s more hard-core fans such as us ;) . Eh, no. WW2 is guaranteeably (???) less risky choice than some post-WW2 or fictional conflict. Just look at how much money SPR and BoB brought to Spielberg & Co. </font>[/QUOTE]I agree. I don't really see how a modern game would attract 'more casual gamers'. In fact, I think it would be the reverse as modern warfare is far more of a niche interest than the massive popularity of WWII.

WWII is my guess for the first game, then something a little more risky like Korea.

[Andreas]

Originally posted by dalem:
Possible working title then, to avoid copyright issues: Combat Mission: Team Red Sox.
I'd buy that if it has a realistic Hollywood rendition of cheer-leaders.

[dangerousdave]

I guess the reason it is necessary to be so "mysterious" about this is because of the competition. Of course, I'm sure the competition is hoping it is something like Korea or Vietnam, or any non-WWII setting.

[dalem]

Originally posted by dangerousdave:
I guess the reason it is necessary to be so "mysterious" about this is because of the competition. Of course, I'm sure the competition is hoping it is something like Korea or Vietnam, or any non-WWII setting. I don't think that anyone thought the WWII 3D gaming niche was worth plumbing back in 1997 or so, but the BFC guys dipped their big toe in anyway and found that niche quite deep indeed.

So respectfully, how would I, or you, or anyone like us, know what the potential is for a modern 3D battlefield simulation with CM's combo of game and simulation?

-dale

[Sirocco]

The question you have to ask, is not just where the GAME is coming from, but the follow-up MODULES for said GAME.

[Battlefront.com]

Remember though, the Modules will all be close in subject matter to the main release. That means if we released a contemporary setting the Modules would all be contemporary. Main game WWII ETO, Modules all WWII ETO. So it is the main releases that are important. In fact, even we aren't really thinking about Modules at this time. Sure, we've got ideas, but we're going to wait and see what happens with the initial releases to map out what the Modules are.

Steve

[Sirocco]

Originally posted by Battlefront.com:
Remember though, the Modules will all be close in subject matter to the main release. That means if we released a contemporary setting the Modules would all be contemporary. Main game WWII ETO, Modules all WWII ETO.My point exactly. ;)

[Vergeltungswaffe]

Originally posted by Battlefront.com:
...with the initial releases to map out what the Modules are.
Steve Ah ha. I retract my prediction of two initial releases for 44 ETO and 43 Russia for two GAMES being released close together. One 44 ETO and one Korea.

[Aragorn2002]

If it's not Normandy they would be very, very, very stupid....

[Tagwyn]

How many "Normandy" games do we need? D-Day might be a subset of the game, but an entire game on one battle!! Ludicrous and unimaganitive. I dont have $50 + to spend on such a game or on a modern game. If you like ambushes and steath and rag-heads planting mines on public rights-of-way etc. report to the local insane asylulm. Just my opinion. TAG

[Sirocco]

Originally posted by Tagwyn:
How many "Normandy" games do we need? D-Day might be a subset of the game, but an entire game on one battle!!Normandy wasn't just D-Day.

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by Sirocco:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Tagwyn:
How many "Normandy" games do we need? D-Day might be a subset of the game, but an entire game on one battle!!Normandy wasn't just D-Day. </font>[/QUOTE]Quite; it was the entire campaign from the landings on June 6th, to the Allies reaching the Seine at the end of August 1944.

I think the ultimate treatment would be a strategic map (like Avalon Hill's THE LONGEST DAY) where all the resources open to both sides can be pitted against each other - including four engined bombers, paratroops, commandos, naval gunfire, and historically available reinforcements like the Germans stuck in Pas de Calais - with the tactical battles being fought in CM. Would be massive, but perhaps letting the computer duke out tactical fights with the player(s) getting to pick and choose with CM battles to handle.

I am hoping CMX2 will do this in a small way - say, battles of a particular airborne division, or the fighting around Caen, or etc. Steve has mentioned a campaign layer so hopefully it will be something like that, and not just a rehash of the Close Combat system where you "campaign" a handful of units through a pre-scripted sequence of battles. CC4 improved on this a little bit with a semi-reactive map layer but still left much to be desired.

Even fictional maps for such an endeavour using the map creator would be okay by me - if historical mapping proved to be too much of a chore.

Hey, even a completely fictional initial game with WW II units but a fantasy map would be ok by me, too, sort of like the Onion Wars campaign. As long as it had a decent strategic layer.

[Pzman]

That does sound good, but it all depends on the time period that BFC is looking to cover. Steve has noted that they might do things ranging in size from Battle of the Bulge, all the way down to the battle of St.Lo. Very small scale for the latter.

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by Pzman:
That does sound good, but it all depends on the time period that BFC is looking to cover. Steve has noted that they might do things ranging in size from Battle of the Bulge, all the way down to the battle of St.Lo. Very small scale for the latter. By that logic, a US Airborne game might be the entire 101st Airborne Division - or just the fight for Carentan. Lots of options in Normandy alone.