How exactly does CM (CMSF) play / Sim?

[meade95]

I have never played a CM game before - Very interested in purchasing CMSF -

Though I'm interested in how exactly does it play? It is squad based......and both / either turned based or real-time (correct).

What exactly are these "1-minute" movies I read about?

[Elmar Bijlsma]

Have you considered trying the demo? Not a whole lot we can tell that you seeing for yourself won't do much better.

[meade95]

What exactly is WEGO? (thanks).

Yes, plan to play the DEMO - But waiting for new computer to arrive (purcahsed already) before I can do so -

[Elmar Bijlsma]

Well, WEGO is the system where both you and your opponent plot orders for your units. When you are both satisfied you press GO and the game calculates the next minute of action using both sides plots.
So it's turn based, both taking the turn at the same time. It's a great system, allowing for the thrill of real time action yet the relaxed pace of turn based.

[C'Rogers]

What exactly are these "1-minute" movies I read about?In CMx1 (which some, maybe many, still prefer) the game was always played in one minute turns (Elmar's description above). You could then watch the one minute turn again and again. Thus it gets referred to as a movie.

[hoolaman]

Originally posted by meade95:
I have never played a CM game before - Very interested in purchasing CMSF -

Though I'm interested in how exactly does it play? It is squad based......and both / either turned based or real-time (correct).

What exactly are these "1-minute" movies I read about? Yes, it is squad based, the smallest unit being a team like a sniper of machine gun 3 man team or a split squad. You plot target and movement orders for a whole squad. The game AI controls how the individuals get from a to b (what we refer to as TAC-AI).

It can be played in real-time, but due to its realistic scale and plenty of things happening in different places, only smallish missions really work this way. For bigger missions, you can play WEGO as mentioned above, which is kind of like an enforced pause ever minute, but during the minute neither player can make moves, and at the end that one minute playback can be watched over again and again so you can zoom in on the cool explosions and RPGs flying across your bow.

In wargaming jargon WEGO was in contrast to IGO-UGO turns where players would make moves in turn like chess or panzer general or that sort of thing.

[luderbamsen]

Try the demo. If you're an old school turn-based wargamer I suspect you'll find the WEGO system a refreshing change.

If you're a bit of a bit of an action whore, like me, I suspect you'll find the WEGO system more gratifying and less "boring" than traditional turn-based games, as I did.

Hopefully, you're not as dimwitted as me and will actually be able to play the game effectively (i.e. winning, at least sometimes) rather than just marvel at the little 3D models scurrying about and blowing each other up, as I do.

[MikeyD]

Total novices at CM are sometimes initially taken aback by the gameplay, expecially if they come from a 'shooter' game background. There's no power-ups or health crystals, no 'puzzle' to solve to get to the next level, and the race does not always go to the swift. But its definitely worth learning how the game works. If you think 'real world' instead of 'game world' (don't charge into the teeth of mg fire for instance) the game become pretty intuitive (and VERY fun) pretty quick smile.gif

[meade95]

Thanks for all the great feedback - I definitley plan to purcahse CMSF witout a doubt - The more I learn / read about it the more interested I become.

I am an old TOAW player along with some of the HPS SIMs - As well as an old-school R6 / GR (though the newer versions are simply arcadish and I can't bother with them)...

Thanks again -


Just curious anyone here play the Close Combat seriers? - The new CCMT (Modern Tactics).

[sonar]

Hi Meade95, Don't overlook the original cm games, if you've never played them, they're classics.

[jomni]

I played CCMT. Uninstalled CMSF because CCMT was easier to play. But I grew tired of the game so quickly. Now uninstalled CCMT and will install CMSF because of the new 1.07 patch.

Compared to CMSF:

Pros:
1) Tighter controls and orders
2) Better model of soldier self-preservation and morale
3) Great mulitplayer experience
4) Decent Order of battle (has US Army, USMC, British, Opfor Militia - i.e. insurgents and warlords, Opfor Regular - i.e. Russians)

Cons:
1) No campaigns
2) Poor mission quality
3) Very basic mission creator
4) Enemy AI is passive (slow moving and mostly on defensive). So if you play a defensive scenario, you should go on the offensive to prevent boredom. CMSF AI puts up a better fight either whether on the attack or defense.
5) Graphically obsolete

[Adam]

The engine is still in beta

[luderbamsen]

Originally posted by meade95:
[QB] - As well as an old-school R6 / GR (though the newer versions are simply arcadish and I can't bother with them)...
In that case, you should have a look here (http://www.blackfootstudios.com/newsletter/BFS_Newsletter1_Sept07.pdf) , and take it from there. Gimme a shout if you have any questions.

I played those games too, as well as CM. I'd say CM prolly fits nicely into your game tastes.

[meade95]

Originally posted by jomni:
I played CCMT. Uninstalled CMSF because CCMT was easier to play. But I grew tired of the game so quickly. Now uninstalled CCMT and will install CMSF because of the new 1.07 patch.

Compared to CMSF:

Pros:
1) Tighter controls and orders
2) Better model of soldier self-preservation and morale
3) Great mulitplayer experience
4) Decent Order of battle (has US Army, USMC, British, Opfor Militia - i.e. insurgents and warlords, Opfor Regular - i.e. Russians)

Cons:
1) No campaigns
2) Poor mission quality
3) Very basic mission creator
4) Enemy AI is passive (slow moving and mostly on defensive). So if you play a defensive scenario, you should go on the offensive to prevent boredom. CMSF AI puts up a better fight either whether on the attack or defense.
5) Graphically obsolete Thanks for this comparision - Appreciate it -

[meade95]

Originally posted by luderbamsen:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by meade95:
[QB] - As well as an old-school R6 / GR (though the newer versions are simply arcadish and I can't bother with them)...
In that case, you should have a look here (http://www.blackfootstudios.com/newsletter/BFS_Newsletter1_Sept07.pdf) , and take it from there. Gimme a shout if you have any questions.

I played those games too, as well as CM. I'd say CM prolly fits nicely into your game tastes. </font>[/QUOTE]Thanks - And definitely - I've read the newsletter and have kept up with GB -

BFS is exactly what the tactical FPS world needs right now - It has been missing since RS and GR1 - A real tactical FPS -

Can't wait until GB goes Gold - Which will hopefully be around Nov/Dec 08....correct?

[Field Marshal Blücher]

Oh, man. Thanks so much for the GB link. I thought those old-school tactical shooters were dead and buried.

You have restored my faith in humanity, luderbamsen.

-FMB

[robplumm]

You know, you can pick the game (CMSF) up for $9.99, well worth it at that price and for $10, if you don't like it...so what?

[meade95]

Originally posted by jomni:
I played CCMT. Uninstalled CMSF because CCMT was easier to play. But I grew tired of the game so quickly. Now uninstalled CCMT and will install CMSF because of the new 1.07 patch.

Compared to CMSF:

Pros:
1) Tighter controls and orders
2) Better model of soldier self-preservation and morale
3) Great mulitplayer experience
4) Decent Order of battle (has US Army, USMC, British, Opfor Militia - i.e. insurgents and warlords, Opfor Regular - i.e. Russians)

Cons:
1) No campaigns
2) Poor mission quality
3) Very basic mission creator
4) Enemy AI is passive (slow moving and mostly on defensive). So if you play a defensive scenario, you should go on the offensive to prevent boredom. CMSF AI puts up a better fight either whether on the attack or defense.
5) Graphically obsolete Again, I appreciate your comments here - I just purchased CMSF (and waiting to see how it plays).

Can I ask you - Between CCMT and CMSF - Which do you feel does a better job at allowing for infantry type tactics or simulated MOUT operations?

Thanks

[JohnO]

VBS2

[Webwing]

VBS2?

--

[Phillip Culliton]

Originally posted by jomni:
I played CCMT. Uninstalled CMSF because CCMT was easier to play. But I grew tired of the game so quickly. Now uninstalled CCMT and will install CMSF because of the new 1.07 patch.

Compared to CMSF:

Pros:
1) Tighter controls and orders
2) Better model of soldier self-preservation and morale
3) Great mulitplayer experience
4) Decent Order of battle (has US Army, USMC, British, Opfor Militia - i.e. insurgents and warlords, Opfor Regular - i.e. Russians)

Cons:
1) No campaigns
2) Poor mission quality
3) Very basic mission creator
4) Enemy AI is passive (slow moving and mostly on defensive). So if you play a defensive scenario, you should go on the offensive to prevent boredom. CMSF AI puts up a better fight either whether on the attack or defense.
5) Graphically obsolete This is right on the money. I was happy to shell out for CCMT to support the devs, but the actual product was very... meh.

I enjoy the psych model and tighter orders. Honestly, though, the AI in the earlier CC incarnations seemed tighter. I think they built the engine for WW2... speaking as someone who owns both CCMT and CC:Marines, the engine doesn't map all that well to modern situations, even with the changes made by the later development teams.

Enjoyed the HECK out of CC:Marines, though. Kind of disappointed in CCMT by way of relation, more than anything.