After Marine mod what Red equipment needs to be added to mod the Russian Army ?

[Hannibal]

After the addition of the BMP-3 and the T-90 what Red equipssian equipment need to be added to mod the modern Russian army ?

[Elmar Bijlsma]

I'd like to see the ZSU 23-4 and ZPU-4 mounts.

[The_Red_Rage]

Better infantry (including body armour)
BTR-80 is a must
BTR-90 would be nice to have
BTR-D
T-80 - nice to have but can do without it
BMD 1/2/3
MTLB with variety of mounts
T-90 and BMP-3 will have to get an upgraded package as well

[akd]

Russian air support also, of course.

[Cpl Steiner]

It would be nice if BFC just released a "Russians" module after the Marines, Brits and EuroForce ones. Why shouldn't Russia be one of the countries hit by a Syrian "dirty bomb"? I know it's unlikely in the current political climate that US and Russian forces would both invade Syria but it would fit in with the back story and also allow properly researched Russian TO&Es to be pitted against US, British, European and Syrian forces.

[Sivodsi]

Definitely the MTLB, but especially the MT-LBM 6MA3 - has 4 kornet missile launcher. Actually, any kind of vehicle which has a Kornet missile launcher would be great for evening things up.

Edit to add: oh yeah, to hell with the pretense, just release a Russian module. Good call Cpl Steiner!

[Cougar_DK]

It would be nice if BFC just released a "Russians" module after the Marines, Brits and EuroForce ones. Why shouldn't Russia be one of the countries hit by a Syrian "dirty bomb"? I know it's unlikely in the current political climate that US and Russian forces would both invade Syria but it would fit in with the back story and also allow properly researched Russian TO&Es to be pitted against US, British, European and Syrian forces.

I'm with Cpl Steiner

[The_Red_Rage]

I'm with Cpl Steiner

+1 on that.

Modern Russian army hasn't been simulated in any game yet. If anyone does it, I'd wait it to be BFC.

[Chainsaw]

+1 from me to on that!

[Hannibal]

Well I also would love russian mod

[Lethaface]

Count me in for the russians :)

[Mord]

It would be nice if BFC just released a "Russians" module after the Marines, Brits and EuroForce ones. Why shouldn't Russia be one of the countries hit by a Syrian "dirty bomb"? I know it's unlikely in the current political climate that US and Russian forces would both invade Syria but it would fit in with the back story and also allow properly researched Russian TO&Es to be pitted against US, British, European and Syrian forces.

I've got a feeling we'll be seeing them when the modern era goes temperate...I can't really see another Red Force other than them...except maybe North Korea? Judging by how popular Operation Flashpoint was, it would be the smart move.


Mord.

[cool breeze]

heck yeah!

[Cpl Steiner]

I wish BFC would flesh out the "modern temperate" setting they've hinted at. It does appear to be a definite plan rather than just a rumour, and most likely would follow the WWII game, but I wonder if they've actually thought much about what would go in it.

I suppose a hypothetical CMx2 "game" (as opposed to a "module") could be set in a former Eastern Bloc country that is invaded by Russia. Maybe Ukraine? Events in Georgia have only confirmed the re-emergence of Russia as a regional military power, so maybe we could have a "Russian" perspective game portraying a task force driving into Ukraine to reach the capital, Kiev. I know the US market would probably see this as playing the "bad guys" but what the hell - it's no different to playing the "Empire" in "Star Wars Battlefront II".

[Mord]

I think they probably have way too much on their plate right now to flesh it out. As far as we know they have the Marines, The Brits, The German/Dutch/Canadian, The Normandy title and probably a couple modules for that too. That's at least two years worth of programming right there.

I wouldn't mind Russians but I'd like to have the ability to pit them against US/Brits and German equipment among others.


Mord.

[leakyD]

I wouldn't mind Russians but I'd like to have the ability to pit them against US/Brits and German equipment among others.


Yup. It would certainly be worth the wait to have as many NATO/continental forces possible represented before/when a Russian Module is released.

Remember, Poland is (slowly) upgrading to Leopards as their MBT.

http://armyreco.ifrance.com/europe/pologne/pologne_index_materiel.htm

Any future conflict w. Poland/Eastern Europe would seem to have a mixture of Red and Blue weaponry.

I would not be surprised if more Eastern European countries are "upgraded" to NATO standards as time moves on.

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/?s=poland+mbt

[Paper Tiger]

I can't believe I'm going to say this but I suspect that when we get the Russian equipment for CMx2, I probably won't go back to WW2 again. Modern Era combat ROCKS!!!

If I understand what Steve said in his earlier post about this Temperate zone thing then it's not going to be a module but a whole new game. And that will probably start as US army v Russia, then after 6-8 months a Marines module and then a year after that, the Brits module... Okay, perhaps it won't take THAT long to get the modules out seeing as how the modelling and the TAC AI has already been done but we'll sure as hell have to buy them all over again.:eek:

[hoolaman]

While Russian forces are a great idea, I think I'd rather not be limited to the CMSF Syrian terrain when playing with these toys.

It doesn't seem like terrain will come in module form judging by the Marines, so I'd rather wait and have a Russia vs NATO/Ukraine in the rolling green steppes or Western Europe. Once that base game was squared away, there could be module after module after module. Anything from early 1950s soviet era to 1980s cold war to 2010 modern could be added as a TO&E for the one base game.

So CMSF can be left behing AFAIC, on to WWII, then on to the Fulda Gap.

[hoolaman]

While Russian forces are a great idea, I think I'd rather not be limited to the CMSF Syrian terrain when playing with these toys.

It doesn't seem like terrain will come in module form judging by the Marines, so I'd rather wait and have a Russia vs NATO/Ukraine in the rolling green steppes or Western Europe. Once that base game was squared away, there could be module after module after module. Anything from early 1950s soviet era to 1980s cold war to 2010 modern could be added as a TO&E for the one base game. Even a lot of the models are already done, T-55, BTR-60 etc are all pretty ancient.

So CMSF can be left behing AFAIC, on to WWII, then on to the Fulda Gap.

[Paper Tiger]

I think I'd rather not be limited to the CMSF Syrian terrain when playing with these toys

100% agree with you there. And it was worth saying it twice. :)

[Flanker15]

I would adore a Russian module for CM:SF too, we've got a modern western army now time for a modern east army. New tile sets could be added in with modules too. Then you could add another western army (UK, Germany?) then another eastern one (China, Israel?) and go back and forth until we have lots of armies!

[Lampshade111]

Doesn't it seem rather unfair that all of these country's would be kicking Syria's ass at once? I agree that some different countryside would be nice.

[Hannibal]

I agree why not have the french beat them up after the Army Marines /British German Dutch and Canadian

[The_Red_Rage]

Speaking of French, just bumped into this marvel:


http://auto.lenta.ru/video/2008/08/04/sherpa/

2 liter (!!!) turbodiesel with 214 hp at 2300 rpm and can haul up to 4000kg with insane ground clearance - not bad at all!

[LongLeftFlank]

I think they probably have way too much on their plate right now to flesh it out. As far as we know they have the Marines, The Brits, The German/Dutch/Canadian, The Normandy title and probably a couple modules for that too. That's at least two years worth of programming right there.

I wouldn't mind Russians but I'd like to have the ability to pit them against US/Brits and German equipment among others.


Mord.

Wonder if BFC could farm development of a Russian (+ Chinese?) module out to that Russian outfit that did TOW or Balkans on Fire? Meanwhile the core BFC team could focus on Normandy as well as further enhancements to the game engine, European terrain, etc.

[RommL]

for me the next syrian unit is:

BTR 152 ( 560 exemplary )
BTR 70
ZSU 23-4

I will like also an french unit

with:

AMX 10P
AMX 10 RC
VBL milan
VBL
VAB
AUF-1... :D

[John Kettler]

ZU-23. Part of the basic VDV toolkit and a ubiquitous weapon with many applications, not least on technicals. Anyone see the Afghanistan or maybe Chechnya field mod to a BTR-D in the footage from South Ossetia? Some thought that pretty gangsta.

http://www.warfare.ru/?lang=&catid=245&linkid=2312

NSV HMG

http://www.warfare.ru/?lang=&catid=276&linkid=2293

BMP-T Like an Achzarit, but more modern, way better protected, and with very sharp teeth!

http://www.warfare.ru/?lang=&catid=245&linkid=1785

We also need some of the more common trucks, plus our little friend.

http://www.warfare.ru/?catid=247&cattitle=Engineering

Regards,

John Kettler

[The_Red_Rage]

I'm actually very surprised that ZU-23-2 and ZSU-23-4 weren't included in the game. Those things are VERY common everywhere, with Syrian not being an exception. Using Shilka in infantry support role would be awesome.

And yes ZU-23 were mounted on practiacally everything - from stationary defensive outposts to MTLBs and truckbeds. Those things proved to be so deadly in urban combat that i don't think they are even viewed as air defense platforms in the Russian army anymore.

[medlinke]

That would be intriguing...along with some more "European-ish" (word?) looking terrain / buildings.

[Sivodsi]

BMP-T not only look good, but are good for you:
http://www.militaryimages.net/photopost/data/503/bmpt.jpg
Edit to add: I wonder how many casualties are caused by inappropriate turret rotation? Hope there's a lock on the think while those guys are getting some air.

[John Kettler]

Sivodsi,

Spectacular pic and an excellent point! I see we also have a new application for bar armor. Am guessing its use there may have something to do with keeping mud cleared out from the running gear.

The spec sheet says otherwise, but am I seeing the muzzle brakes for two 30mm cannon? If not, what's that thing to the right of the obvious one, almost directly below the bearded chin of the man upper left rear?

Regards,

John Kettler

[akd]

Yes, two 2A42 cannons on that one. It should be noted that, while awesome, the BMP-T is not operational in the Russian Army (or any other as far as I know).

[leakyD]

Nice pic.

Takes the BTR-D to the next level.

http://www.defencetalk.com/pictures/data/3071/bmpt_1.jpg

I think I'd like to take a 1 of these + 3 bmp3's up against a Bradley platoon anyday of the week.

[John Kettler]

akd,

Whew! If that wasn't the answer, I was wondering what other possible explanation there might be. As for the thing's operational status, I don't know whether to laugh or cry. Given its phenomenal capabilities in MOUT, plus the numerous MOUT nightmares the Russians have experienced, plus the fat Russian budget, I expect they'll have some in very short order. Just think what a difference even a platoon of those might've made in Fallujah! Clearly, the Russians have gotten religion on this high angle fire for MOUT issue. I saw further evidence of this in some Spetsnaz vid in which a BTR-80? with a modified turret for high angle, close in work was brought in to help take down a "terrorist seized" apartment tower.

Having seen the new BMP-T pic, I note there's been a major configuration change in the positioning of some of the optics. Looks like the primary sight has moved from the top of the turret to the base, and the highest item on the new configuration is, I think, the antenna array for the defensive countermeasures.

Regards,

John Kettler

[leakyD]

BMP-T vid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeaUlu9iTs4&feature=related

[John Kettler]

leakyD,

Scary, and did you see they call it the Terminator?! Very nasty piece of kit, as our Brits here would say. I still marvel at the Russian military-technical material so freely available now. I used to be thrilled with getting an actual photograph, but many times had to make do with an artist's rendering (a way of protecting intel source).

Regards,

John Kettler

[The_Red_Rage]

BMP-T is probably the most exciting AFV to come out in the last 10 years. "Quick fix" solution to refurbish old T-72s taken to the next level - insane firepower, enough protection to act as a RPG magnet (which it was designed to do), and up-to-date observation/fire control equipment with ability to engage up to 5km.

Aimed to be used at tandem with tanks: 2 BMP-Ts per tank in urban environment and 1 per 2 tanks in open country. This looks to be the ultimate urban combat vihicle atm.

And I bet it's cheaper than a Stryker...

[Sivodsi]

From the following thread, near the end of the first page: http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=83259 Steve says:
Why not add more current Russian stuff into the game as a generic enemy force? Because we don't want to do a half assed job of it, which is what dribbling in this or that vehicle would amount to. Instead we are planning on releasing CM:SF 2 sometime after the first WW2 game. Not only will it have a temperate setting and modern Russian equipment, but it will also have all the game engine improvements going into the next major release (Normandy). We think it's better to devote our resources towards that goal instead of spending it on more CM:SF 1 Modules.

Looks like the Russian stuff we get in the Marines module will be all that we'll be getting. Fair enough I suppose; the more they add now, the less that'll be new for CMSF 2.

[akd]

Well, I personally think that this may be a mistake. Adding new blue units is only part of the equation of making each module fresh. Even with Brit/NATO units, it will feel somewhat stale fighting against the same old Syrian units, especially for the poor people stuck playing red in multiplayer. Doesn't necessarily mean you have to go with the most modern Russian gear, but something needs to change, and I only really see two options:

1. Upgrade the Syrian forces conventional capabilities with new weapon systems, but that becomes increasingly difficult to keep consistent with the storyline and Russian/Chinese equipment is really the only logical addition (thus infringeing on future product).

or

2. Add to the options for the Syrians to wage unconventional war/insurgency, but BFC has already indicated they are hesistant to venture further into this area (full simulation of civilians, operations other than war, etc.)

[Sivodsi]

3. Fantasy: "A new dictator arises", one who harks back to his days at Oxford and buys nothing but British/european gear, threatens to cut off US oil supply in the middle east. The USA reacts by invading his little corner of the middle-east.

Blue on Blue warfare is obviously the way to go for CMSF1.

[The_Red_Rage]

There is plenty of units that can be added to Red without deviating from game's storyline.

BTR-70 (I'd rather see BTR-80 tbh since BTR-70 pretty much equals BTR-60PB), BTR-152 (would be good for reserves), ZU-23-2, ZSU-57-2, ZSU-23-4, Trucks (Ural 4230, Praga V3S, old Mercedes trucks), UAZ with machinegun mount. Syrians have all that and in very large numbers. None of it will give an edge against a Blue player, however release of those older vihicles will be appriciated by Red on Red scenario designers. Vintage vihicles and high quality infantry is where it's at with Red on Red.

[Razgovory]

I'd love to see more Red equipment. The Syrians don't seem really have T-90s (also we didn't invade Syria earlier this summer) so I don't think it really matters much if they are given other stuff. I'd like to see some more modern Russian equipment as well. Also better infantry. I'd like see the infantry equipped with better anti-tank stuff. Make them more interesting. Possibly some better fortifications as well.

[John Kettler]

Did any of you see my suggestion for bringing in the all too likely contingent of Black Sea Marines? That would give us BTR-80s, MT-LBs, 2S1, 2S9. No idea what happened to the tanks that used to be in the force. In my day, the BSM had T-55M with Drozd, plus a bunch of PT-76.

http://www.warfare.ru/?lang=&catid=321&linkid=2231

As for Syria proper, I think these would dampen Stryker ardor considerably. Syria has 675, about the same as it has ZU-23/2.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/57_mm_AZP_S-60

Note that the thing has AP ammo and "can be used against light armor."

http://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/s-60.htm

Regards,

John Kettler