BIG announcement

[Mord]

Sorry to put this here but I figured it was more likely to get read than if I put it in the GF, and in a round about way it's on topic.

Welp, at 39 I am in the midst of enlisting in the Army. I am hoping I can get into the Infantry. The recruiters seem to think, even at this age, that I have a chance. I hope they aren't just blowing smoke. My two practice tests were 53 and then 68...they are saying by the sounds of it, the line scores should cover it. I've gotta brush up on my math skills...been out of school for 22 years and man, the math gets rusty not having done anything but basic adding and subtracting in that time.

I am taking my ASVAB Friday and my Physical on Saturday...if they go well I'll be signing the papers the same day. I am looking to ship off to BCT in January, 'cause I wanna take 3 months to get into shape, so I don't drop dead the first day. Figure I'll live those three months as if I am in Basic, minus the screaming dudes in crew cuts. I always said I wanted to do something REALLY special for my Fortieth birthday, so it's looking like Basic is gonna be it.

In the end, if it all goes to plan, which will be a miracle if it does, I'll be visiting Afghanistan sometime next year or 2010...That ultimately will be up to the Army...but Afghanistan is what I am...AHEM...shooting for. It's gonna be a long road with lots of obstacles, the first being Friday and Saturday, but I am really hoping I can do it. I am scared as hell. It's a huge, HUUUUUUUGE change to make after having lived as a civilian all this time, but it's REALLY exciting too. I am especially pumped about getting to fire and learn all the weaponry. I am hoping I can do well...the sense of pride I am gonna have is gonna be bigger than anything I have ever done in my life.

So anyways, wish me luck!


Mord.


P.S. I hope I am not jinxing myself by writing this.

[Chainsaw]

What? Not the Marines? Huntarr gonna reprimand you for this... :cool:

But good luck anyway on the test and the future!

/Chainsaw

[Mord]

Cut off for the Marines is 28, I think it was. I am too old. But personally, Army has always interested me more. LOL no offence Huntarr.




Mord.

[Steiner14]

What, you are supporting this banksters regime with your life? They laugh at you.

[Normal Dude]

Get your ASVAB score as high as you can, even if that means putting some time away to re-learn some math. With a low ASVAB score a lot of doors will be closed to you.

PS. Demand when you sign those papers, and don't get talked into anything, at least not without sleeping on it and getting a second, non-recruiter opinion. This is one of the few times you will have power over the Army. Use it wisely.

ETA II: I hope you have a damn hardy constitution. Infantry is going to be pretty freakin hard on a 40 year old.

[missinginreality]

Mord,
Respect to you for having the courage and determination to make changes and do what you want in life.
MiR

[theFightingSeabee]

Mord,
I wish you nothing but the best. Sure, it's going to be rough at times, but it's certainly possible. A lot of the guys I served with were in their 40's and they kept up with all of us young guys. Just do what you gotta do to get in shape.

From all of the posts of yours I've read, you're an intelligent guy. I don't think you'll have much trouble with the ASVAB. My practice score was 80 and I ended up with a real score of 91.

Anyhow, I appreciate your willingness to serve. I did 6 years and I'm very proud of it (if you haven't seen me brag constantly on this forum). It's a very honorable thing to do, if for the right reasons. Thanks.

Btw, my neighbor is trying to get into the Army, and I'll say the same thing to you that I said to him... "Don't let your recruiter screw you." Tell him what you want in exchange for your service, i.e., monetary signing bonuses, etc. Don't let him tell you that you have to be a mechanic if that is not what you want to do, because you'll be stuck doing it for X number of years.

That said, keep us posted on what is going on with you and the Aaaaarmy.

[meade95]

Mord - Nothing but the absolute best wishes for you - And be proud, you should be.

[purpheart23]

"Don't let your recruiter screw you."

First off let me start by congratulating you on your decision to enlist. I myself just came off recruiting duty in June of this year. I will tell you that I'd rather have been deployed to Iraq/Afghanistan for that same number of years. At least there you have a better idea of who the enemy is.

From what I've read you are doing this as more of an adventure/ change of pace/ fulfill a life long dream kind of thing? Correct me if I'm wrong. Mord you need to be very up front with your recruiter as to what you want. What I will tell you is that they can not begin to promise you anything until you asvab is knocked out. After that, then they can start talking jobs, bonuses, extra schools i.e. airborne/ranger/SF candidate.....Next you need to think of every question you can possibly think of to ask the man/woman you are working with. If you feel that he/she is giving you a raw deal on the whole thing, go to go army.com and look for the next closest recruiting station by area code or city and ask the recruiters at that station the same questions. By the sounds of your practice test scores and this is just going from experience, you'll probably score in the low 60's to high 70's. Which will qualify you for the Infantry pending the job vacancy exists. Most likely with that score you will also receive a bonus(disclaimer: A bonus is just that, do not be disappointed if the job you want does not come with a bonus).

Next comes the physical. You will probably stay the night at the meps hotel the night prior. Make sure to pack nice casual clothes, a non offensive t-shirt and jeans with no holes. Also make sure you wear close toed shoes and boxer or briefs underwear(beleive me there's a reason why this is briefed). When you arrive at the meps in the morning you will check in with the army liason. At this point they will pull your medical forms from you packet and send you to the control desk to get you checked in with the medical personnel. First things first, urinalysis and breathalyzer. After that you'll move from station to station going through vision, hearing, basic physical procedures, they'll draw blood for hiv testing purposes. Oh yeah Height and Weight is a big deal. Your recruiter should measure you up before scheduling you meps visit. Once you've cleared the physical, you will be sent to lunch. When you return the Guidance Counselor in the Army Guidance office will sit down with you(eventually :)) When you sit down with him he is going to ask you what you want to do, and then follow on questions will come to try to get the things you want in the least painful way possible, but basically at this point you need to tell him your desires. Once your contract has been finalized and digitally signed it will be printed out and you will be sent to do a security interview. Once the interview is completed you will be finger printed for more background checks. You will return to the army guidance office and await the swearing in ceremony. Pending on the officer doing the swearing in your wait could be extensive. Over all prepare to make a complete day of it. Meps is boring, and long, and boring, and long, and repetitive like this last line. Hurry up and wait. Your recruiter will brief you as what to expect down there and give you the ins and outs. Remember to listen very, very carefully to everything he tells you about meps as it's for your success during the process. If you have any questions mord, any at all feel free to PM me or just put it out here in this thread and i will respond as quickly as possible. Once again congratulations on your decision, hope to see you out here soon.

[Normal Dude]

Some more random advice:

1. No alcohol prior to MEPS, not even mouth wash. If you blow above a 0.00 you can't do the physical (at least, that is what the MEPS lady said. She might have been blowing smoke up our ass).

2. Don't let the MEPS guy doing your contract (He won't be your personal recruiter.) talk you into anything on the spot, although he very well may pressure you into doing so.

3. I hope you can run. A very easy way to get bad attention in the infantry is to fall out of runs. If you can't run... start now.

4. Go Airborne. :D :D :D

[Clavicula_Nox]

Some more random advice:

1. No alcohol prior to MEPS, not even mouth wash. If you blow above a 0.00 you can't do the physical (at least, that is what the MEPS lady said. She might have been blowing smoke up our ass).

2. Don't let the MEPS guy doing your contract (He won't be your personal recruiter.) talk you into anything on the spot, although he very well may pressure you into doing so.

3. I hope you can run. A very easy way to get bad attention in the infantry is to fall out of runs. If you can't run... start now.

4. Go Airborne. :D :D :D

I think he's too old for Airborne. I want to say the cutoff age was 35 w/o a waiver...

Good luck, buddy! If you want Afghanistan for sure, then tell the Career Counselor (guy who does your paperwork at MEPS) that you want the 10th Mountain Division, and away you go!

[Field Marshal Blücher]

Best of luck to you, Mord!

[SgtMuhammed]

Mord,

Thanks and best of luck. You'll like Benning, nothing but lazy afternoons in the Georgia sun, or freezing rain in your case, sipping mint tea on the porch swing. Then you wake up at 0330 to put another coat of wax on the floor before rolling out for PT.

If you can, drop this old Infantryman a line to let us know how you are doing. The only feeling that beat getting my blue cord and disks was the birth of my son.

Normal Dude is right, start running now, even if you are a total screwball, if you can run you will save yourself a world of hurt.

"Follow ME!"

[JonS]

P.S. I hope I am not jinxing myself by writing this.
Nup. Best way to pass basic is to tell everyone what you're doing.

All the best.

[Battlefront.com]

Well, this is big news! Congratulations on your decision. Give us nearly 40 crowd someone to root for :D

Good to see the advice here. And from a former recruiter too! Couldn't ask for a better bunch to give you advice. Except for SgtM. When he was in the Army they were still riding around on horses and learning how to keep their powder horns from filling up with water. Me thinks the military has moved on since his time.

Steve

[MarkEzra]

As a fellow American I'm proud and grateful. God be with you.

[Huntarr]

Mord,
Your tuggin on this har Gunny's heart strings. It makes me love this country even more seeing someone willing to serve her even in these trying times. Knowing that we have people that are still willing to put it on the line to serve. Makes me proud. You'll do fine, you've got a good head on your shoulders from what this community has seen. The Army is gonna get a fine Soldier and we all get a fine citizen in return. I'd go to "the Pit" with you anyday.

I thank you for your service.


Here's a "modified" Army version of Piehole. Hang it up, so you can get desensitized before boot. Oh, and get everything in writing from your recruiter:rolleyes: and don't cut your hair before like I did, let it grow give them something to shave or it'll be worse.

http://i36.tinypic.com/34ioi2c.jpg


http://i38.tinypic.com/2qu3o8h.jpg

http://i33.tinypic.com/25gfdvn.jpg

Semper Fi

[tc237]

Congrats bro,

Some more advice:

Like others have posted, "don't let the recruiter screw you".
The Army needs people bad, you hold all the cards here, get what you can now (choice of MOS, duty station, bounus, etc...)
You WILL NOT be able to change later, not untill you re-enlist.
Do not be fooled by "you can join to be a mechanic now, then transfer to infantry later".
Especially if they are selling a technical MOS like Commo, Mechanic, etc.. they won't spend all that money, time and training just to let you go Infantry a few years later.
(They tried that with me 15 years ago, waited 12 months to get the MOS I wanted, ARMOR!!)

PT, PT, PT, especially in the Infantry. Running and Ruck Marches (ouch, the knees).
Try to achieve 18 year old standards because that's who you'll be expected to keep up with.

The DS's at Benning will be tough and no slack. They WILL try to break you and make you fail.
Don't take it personal (Thick Skin!!), know that they are just doing their job, work with them not against them. (make sure the platoon is on time, correct uniform, etc..)
As an older guy you must ALWAYS mantain the highest standards (uniform, weapon, military bearing), the Drills will expect it and will label you a ****bag if you don't.
DO NOT become a "Barracks Lawyer", questioning the Drills behind their backs, etc...

Remember, you are going back to a highschool, locker room type of environment ruled by the 18-21 year old mentality. (I miss it :D)
Use your experience to keep the young guys in the platoon focused on graduation not on petty, personal squables. While trying not to be a "teachers pet".
("back in my day.....")

Your unit will be just as hard on you as the Drills were, if not worse.
I hate to say it, but unless you are in top notch physical shape, you probably won't get into a line platoon.
After 9/11 we had a bunch of over 30 guys join the unit and not one ended up in a tank crew, most were sent to BDE/BN/CO HQ.

Because you are older, you may be more valuable in HQ they carrying a rifle, especially if you have other skills the Commander can use, computers, mechanical, administrative, driving etc..
Don't let that affect your morale, be a team player, do the best job you can always.
(BN/CO HQ is basically frontline so no real difference there)

Good Luck!!!

Please post all questions.

[Mord]

What, you are supporting this banksters regime with your life? They laugh at you.


YES! They promised me a credit line at .05%...

@Normal Dude. Haven't you heard? 40 is the new 30!...I...hope

Yep, I am not gonna sign anything unless I am happy with it. I am working on the ASVAB score, not much time left, but if it's too low I was told I can retake it a month later. I couldn't put it off much longer because my guts have been killing me worrying over everything. I kept a lot of this to myself until I got the ball really rolling so it was eating me up. So far my family and friends are really pumped about it.

As far as jobs I really don't want anything else but infantry. I've worked many years of tree work, though not in a few years, and BCT and or an Infantry profession is probably handled much in the same way, mind over matter (outside of the possibility of being shot). I've worked with a bunch of guys that were a lot bigger and way stronger who couldn't do the same amount of work as me because their brains conquered them before they even got started. I am hoping with will and getting myself into shape before hand, I can handle it. It's been my experience, that if I forge ahead and just keep trying, and not dwelling on the crap parts, things can get accomplished. But yes, my age has worried me a little. I do however have one advantage the younger guys don't and that's that I've been out in the world and know how to act...it's pretty much like most jobs, do what your told when you are told and stay outta trouble....a lot of 18 years olds don't get that.

@ MissingInReality; Thanks brotha, appreciated!

@Seabee thanks for the vote of confidence and the kind words on my brain!

I have run into a few posts online where a couple guys my age were signing up and one that was even older. So, along with your experience with age-ed comrades LOL, that gives me some hope.

@Meade; Thanks very much, man.

@purpleheart23; My reasons for joining are many, some of what you listed are among them. But not really a change of pace...a change of life. Most of them are personal and not something I wanna say in public.

The guy I am working with is new, but between him and some others most of my questions have been answered. I really wasn't expecting much money, bonus or otherwise, but it hasn't really come up. From what I saw, I don't think Infantry guys get one anyway? Not sure? I basically just told him the only thing I am interested in was the Infantry.

Thanks for all the info, it adds to a lot to what I read at GoArmy and some other sites. I just hope they don't find anything I don't know about LOL. And I'll definitely take you up on your offer...nice to have a third party that's removed from the situation.


@Normal Dude; Ya, basically I am gonna show up to the Motel and sleep.

As far as the running and stuff, I have a three month plan I have been working on, It's not totally fleshed out but will be by Sunday. By the time I am ready to ship, BCT should be a bit easier on me than it would be without it. I've got a copy of the Army basic book too that shows the excercises and crap. I know it's gonna be hard regardless but I wanna be as prepared as possible.

@ Clavicula Nox; Yeah, I couldn't do airborne, it'd scare the crap outta me. I am not a heights guy, that 40 foot wall is gonna be scary for me...probably my biggest obstacle to overcome.

@Field Marshall Blucher; Thanks brotha!

@Sgt Mohammad; I'll definitely let you know how it goes. Right now, I just wanna get past this physical and test then I will finally know if I am in.

@Jon; I do agree with that. I was trying to hold off until I knew I was in for sure (reason for the jinx thing). I figured once I let all my friends and family know, it would help me when my spirits were down, knowing all those people are routing for me.

@Steve; LOL yeah man, everybody loves the underdog! And yes, lots of great advice here. Thanks bro.

@Mark; Thank you, very much appreciated.

@Huntarr; Thank you very much! I will do everything I can, to live up to those kind words. I am gonna print that picture out and put it on my door.

And as far as the hair thing LOL I have long hair so they'll have plenty to work with, though I think I'll make it look more normal before I get there.


Mord.

[Mord]

Thanks TC. And no worries about talking behind the DI's backs and the like. Most of what's gonna come out of my mouth will be positive. I sure won't bitch in front of anyone. I don't whine anyway because it annoys me when other punks do it and LOL I don't plan on doing anything that's gonna get me in trouble!

I am gonna do my best to be in the best shape possible and hopefully, I think I can keep up with the younger guys, time will tell.

I pretty much figured my age was gonna put a target on me...kinda like working for family, you're expected to function at a higher standard. As far as the DI's, I won't take it personal, it's their job to train me to stay alive.



Mord.

[handihoc]

Mord, that's a big one! I wish you lots of luck and - from a purely selfish pov - hope you'll still get to finish the big radio chat mod and continue to produce others for us to enjoy.
Go well, mate.

[Bigduke6]

Mord,

Well done on volunteering for the military, the country needs more people like you. Here's my free advice, broken discussion areas for ease of use:

I. PHYSICAL STUFF

It's worth repeating: Get yourself into shape now. I would spend at least two hours a day doing it, and more if I could manage it. A 45 minute run and some pushups and situps every day may just allow you to cut it once you get into basic, but probably not.

You have some major advantages by being older than the average recruit, but physical is not one of them. With time, you can train your muscles to keep up with the teenagers. But your wind and ability to recover from physical work - unless you're some kind of genetic wierdo - is a good deal worse than the average 20-year-old. The time to build your wind, or more exactly your endurance, is now. Muscles you can get in shape in about a month more or less, but wind and stamina takes longer. There are plenty of PT programs you can use, the Internet is full of them, but the main thing is to do the work.

If it were me, I would do about an hour of wind sprints interspersed with sets of exercises or weights in the morning, then rest, and then another hour of jogging/running, with lots of stretches especially at the end. But whatever works for you and allows you to do the training, pretty much every day, is the best route. Take it easy in the beginning, you really need to be careful about injuring yourself. This is not to avoid pain and discomfort, but rather, if you have a pulled muscle that muscle is not going to get trained, until it gets better, and you have limited time to train.

Besides running 2 - 4 miles at good speed, you need to be able (obviously) to do situps, pushups, and pullups. I don't know how much free time you have, but if you can work out sets of those througout your day, above and beyond the two hours or so of proper training, that will help alot.

The goal must be continuous training as intense as you can get it without hurting yourself - and it's really critical to remember that as we get older our mental ability to force ourselves to do physical work can outstrip our body's ability to do the work. Once you get fit then you won't have to worry as much, but the ramp-up is now.

The bottom line here is not to be scared or intimidated or worried about the physical end of the equation. It's true you have an age disadvantage, but it is not a game killer and you are old enough to know that work can overcome disadvantages. So bear down and do the work.

II. MENTAL STUFF

As you are already guessing, you have with your life experience some real advantages over a bunch of kids 20 years old or less. One of the most important is that real life has taught you to listen to instructions and figure out the best way to do what you are told. Almost as important is fitting into a group of strangers in unfamiliar circumstances - you've done that every time you've changed jobs or gone to a party. Kids just out of high school are, socially-speaking, pretty much stupid and inept compared to you.

So, you are not going to be intimidated nearly as much by a drill sergeant yelling at you or demanding something ridiculous like change your clothes five times in two minutes. You are going to understand, intuitively, that at least in the initial stages of basic it's pretty dumb to try and stand out, get over, beat the system, or otherwise try and demonstrate the Army can't make you do what it wants to do. I bet you are going to be amazed, truly amazed, at how teenagers think they are the center of the world and how they are shocked when a drill sergeant isn't impressed with some teenager's opinion. Your policy in the beginning of basic I think should be just to be a good soldier, do the work as best you can.

I suspect very quickly on, not in the first days or couple of weeks but well before basic is over, a bunch of your fellow trainees are going to start looking to you for leadership, and I guarantee the drills will. You are older and in all human societies the older guy has at least some responsibility for taking charge, the Army is no different. Unless you are so sneaky or stupid that the drills decide you will be good for nothing but being a private - and the very fact you're posting here pretty much washes up that possibility - after the first super-harassment phase, probably 3 - 4 weeks, the drills are going to be watching you to see if you have it in you to "take charge", which in Basic is usually things like volunteering to clean the toilet if no one else wants to, or helping out the really stupid recruit with taking apart his rifle, or maybe harassing the platoon sadsack to button his shirt or get rid of those dangling threads or some other silliness that the Army declares is important, primarily to treach trainees to do whatever the Army says no matter how silly it is.

At your age, I think it will be impossible for you to stay off the radar on this. But at the same time unless you are Rambo incarnate the hard ass approach ("I'm the toughest most squared-away guy here so every one in this squad will do what I say or I will kick his ass") isn't going to work for you. I would say helping the weaker guys out, just being an asset rather than a problem for the group, is what you are going to be expected to do, so do it. You have about 20 years of real-life work experience, and as you know you don't have to be a genius to help a group of people do a job.

As an example, when I was going through basic I was far from a great soldier (constant sloppy uniform, frequent insubordination issues) but I had been lucky enough to have been taught riflery as a boy. So, that plus I was about 4-5 years older than the others made me sort of the platoon guru on things like trigger squeeze and sight picture and memorizing the bits of the M-16. I was of course secretly appalled these kids had barely any idea which end of a rifle was what, but in any case what happened with me was when the riflery phase rolled around it turned out I had useful knowledge, so all of a sudden my squad turned out to be the most squared-away in the platoon and the drills sudden laid off me.

There are about a million ways you can help out your fellow trainees being older and more experienced and all, and there are probably a million more you can do just because you can go out of your way to help out your buddy.

So although this bit has already gone on too long the basic advice is really simple: Don't try and be a low-profile trainee who's only worried about himself. Help out your buddies as best as you can, whenever you can. The system expects you to do it and your life ultimately will be alot easier if you do - although this does mean you are going to lose rest sometimes doing some one else's job or teaching some numbnuts 19-year-old something any moron could have learned, but the kid is a teenager so he doesn't want to learn.

III. YOUR CAREER IN THE GREEN MACHINE

I'll start out by repeating the advice of others: Know the options, ask questions, don't be intimidated into doing anything before you sign, and have as clear an idea as possible on what you're getting into. Avoid an information vacuum like the plague, letting a question or two slide because the recruiter seems like he's in a hurry can ruin your life for years, heck, in this day and age it could even get you killed.

If you want to go infantry, get the recruiter to tell you how long the training takes, what jobs you could get, and what jobs you could get forced into. That's critical, the Army once it owns you will try and place you where you want, but if they don't have an opening and you don't have a contract, they will quite legally put you where they decide they need you, and they have some pretty crappy jobs. You want to avoid being put into the pool of people that could get a crappy job. This means know what job you want, which jobs you can't get, and what you have to do to get the job you want.

Another thing to think about is, the Army can train you skills, and if you aren't going to make the military a career it might well be worth your while to think about what you want to be good at, once you get out. In this day and age the infantry still does the hardest work in wars, but the risk is shared out alot more, REMF guys get blown up in IEDs just as much as the infantry, maybe more. There are some excellent skills you can get in the Army that could be serious money once you get out, for instance helicopter mechanic, radar technician, comms engineer, etc. It's not the worst thing in the world to be 45 or so and have a skill that few people have, so you can write your own ticket for work for the rest of your life. Of course you have to balance that against adventure and being a combatant in a war, but the point is, maybe there is a war job that you could do that you could carry over as a marketable skill into civilian life.

What jobs are there? Well grasshopper, that's what the recruiter is for. Ask him, tell him in general terms what you want, and make him tell you the specific options. Recruiters from what I have seen really are not as sneaky as they are made out to be, after all, most of the people complaining about recruiters were stupid 19-year olds dealing with the first contract of their lives, so it's no surprise a teenager blames the recruiter for lack of information, when all the teenager had to do is ask.

You are older and smarter, so you ask, and don't be shy. Treat the recruiter like a car salesman - maybe he'll lie if you let him get away with it (although most won't) but if you ask almost all of the time you're going to get honest answers, as he can go to jail if you can prove - on paper - he lied. Likewise, you let him get away with leaving a critical piece of information out, or not mentioning an option, the guy is a salesman need to make a sale and 99 per cent of the time he'll steer the conversation to his advantage.

Like with a car, no promise is any good unless it's in a written contract. A recruiter can tell you "well, you'll get scouts (or whatever speciality you want) for sure", but "for sure" is close to worthless. Either it's in your contract in writing, or it's just advice that may or may not be true.

Again personal experience, when I went in I asked the questions and got what I could written in a contract, and when I signed I knew exactly what parts of my ideal Army career were not in the contract and were up to chance, and I even had a pretty good idea how the odds were on the chance part. As it worked out for me, I got not only exactly what was in the contract (OCS), but also what the recruiter told me "Well, we can't promise that, but unless you screw up somewhere almost for sure you'll get it." (Military intelligence branch and assignment to Germany).

Anyway, the Army is a huge organization and there are a ton of great jobs out there. Make the recruiter tell you about them. Don't say "I want to fight." Say "Maybe I want to fight, and maybe I want a good civilian job later on."

Yes, yes, I know, the point to joining the Army is supposedly fighting, therefore, only the combat arms are serious. But the point to this exercise for you, I think, is to survive, and if you are in your 40s maybe it's time for you to think about your future life more than a couple of weeks ahead.

Along those same lines, the Army is a terrific way to pay for higher education. They put me through grad school and now for the rest of my life I can tell people I went to an expensive Ivy League school I could otherwise never have afforded.

IV. UNIT ASSIGNMENT

This is a big deal and usually you don't have much direct control over it, but you do have some indirect influence. As a general thing in the Army - provided of course you're willing to risk your life - it's better to be in a standard combat unit rather than a higher-echelon support unit, and although you probably can't make a deal with the recruiter for a particular unit like Airborne or the Rangers.

These days the regular Army doesn't have many bad units, and at brigade level or low the standard of command and discipline is pretty uniform and pretty competent. Become a rifleman or a grenadier, you have an extremely high chance of getting assigned to one of those units, and if you volunteer you are pretty much guaranteed eventual duty in a combat zone with one of these units.

Find out the options with the recruiter, and play out some "what if" scenarios. Say "What if I wanted to be in a Stryker unit in Iraq? How do I do that?" Maybe it's worth it to try and find out some way into 25th Infantry Division, as they have Strykers and their home station is in Hawaii, a cool place to live. (Although as I understand it one brigade is in Alaska, so you might be taking chances here.) In any case, you lose nothing by asking the recruiter "Ok, maybe I want just to be an infantryman somewhere in 25th ID. How do I do that? Can I do that?"

Or, maybe you don't want duty in a combat zone. Well, you can skew things by becoming say a tanker, these days tanks are of limited use in the wars. So if you become a tanker, you slant things a bit away from war duty and towards stateside or Korea. Of course, as our own M1A1 on this forum has demonstrated, the Army is quite capable of turning a tanker into an MP and sending him to Iraq to knock on doors.

Which brings me to the other unit issue, learn at least a few of the jobs/units you really want to stay away from, and then ask the recruiter what are your chances of getting put into those jobs anyway. Your worst cases are your own, but standard "avoid this job" specialities might include unexploded ordnance technician, supply truck driver, or indeed military policeman. Much better to be in a combat unit that to do stuff like that.

When your recruiter is sick of your questioning, you'll know you're on the right track. Just use your maturity, make it clear to him it's not that you don't trust him per say, it's just that you're a grownup and grownups don't sign contracts without maximum information.

V. THE LAST BIT

My final piece of advice is, if you wind up in a war, don't worry about whether or not you can hack combat. You'll be fine, almost every one is. Just keep you wits about you - keep your eyes open and treat the unknown very seriously until you get some idea where the real dangers are. New guys have a tendency to make mistakes, and since you know that avoid anything that even smells like risk, until you develop instincts telling you what's safe and what isn't. You already know how to walk down a dangerous steet in a bad neighborhood, so it's not like you can't learn the same sort of skill for a war. But just remember, before you have learned self-preservation, you could do something dumb.

[Other Means]

Jesus. I admire your commitment fella. Good luck.

The only advice I'd give is that I'd give anyone going into a new group of people:
Keep your mouth shut for the first few days until everyone has got past their trying-to-impress stage. Don't try and be the first to speak - try to be the last.

Put the group before yourself and let that dictate your actions - that's how you become a leader.

Get running. I've never been in the military but they seem to be rather keen on it.

[Other Means]

BTW from everything I've seen I'd use Forrest Gump as my role model rather than Bill Murray.

[kerko]

Heh! Sounds so complicated! In America you enlist to army. Here in Finland, army enlists you. Good luck!

[c3k]

Stop!! Don't sign ANYTHING until they promise you daily access to a computer so you can play CMSF. At least 3 hours a day!!

Years ago, in jump training, my 18/19 year old buddies and I were amazed at this one really old dude who showed up. He was ancient, Methuselah (sp?) kind of old. I think he was around 30 or 32. :) Nice guy, but the pit jumps did him in: knees and lower back. Now that I'm past 40 I really appreciate the work he must've done! As I do you.


Congrats, work hard, and I hope you and the Army both benefit from your decision.

Regards,
Ken

[z1812]

Hi Mord,

Congratulations on your decision to join the Army. Whatever the future brings, you can always feel satisfaction that you have taken concrete action to turn a dream into reality. Many people do not.

I wish you the best of luck in all you do.

regards John

[Angryson]

Remember, you are going back to a highschool, locker room type of environment ruled by the 18-21 year old mentality. (I miss it :D)
Use your experience to keep the young guys in the platoon focused on graduation not on petty, personal squables. While trying not to be a "teachers pet".
("back in my day.....")

Your unit will be just as hard on you as the Drills were, if not worse.
I hate to say it, but unless you are in top notch physical shape, you probably won't get into a line platoon.
After 9/11 we had a bunch of over 30 guys join the unit and not one ended up in a tank crew, most were sent to BDE/BN/CO HQ.

Because you are older, you may be more valuable in HQ they carrying a rifle, especially if you have other skills the Commander can use, computers, mechanical, administrative, driving etc..
Don't let that affect your morale, be a team player, do the best job you can always.
(BN/CO HQ is basically frontline so no real difference there)

Good Luck!!!

Please post all questions.

That is very accurate. The infantry is a very physically demanding environment. When you arrive at your unit it is going to be an uphill battle for you to prove yourself. You are going to have to fight to get into and stay in a line PLT. It can be done, but it is going to be difficult, and once you get overseas it is only going to get harder. Deployments are physically and mentally draining. Just remember why you are there and never quit. Good luck, what you are doing is very honorable.

One other thing. I know 4ht BDE, 3ID is going light once we get back stateside. Our next rotation is scheduled to be in A-stan. From what I understand, most divisions are picking up an extra BDE so that at any time they may have a BDE in Iraq and a BDE in A-stan. Keep that in mind if you get to pick your duty station. Just because you opt for 101st, 82d or 10th Mountain doesn't mean you will be locked into the stan. Once you get to the replacement detachment at your duty station you should be able to find out which BDEs are going where and when. Then it is just a matter of going to the BDE you want and getting the CSM to to get you assigned to his BDE.

Good Luck!

[Splinty]

Hi Mord!

Infantry all the way!!!!

One peice of advice I'd like to give you is for after BCT. The U.S. Army is a notoriously innefficient organization, the amount of last minute changes and conflicting instructions can be staggering. Patience and mental endurance is as important as physical ability, especially in the Infantry. Expect to be ordered around by people who sometimes seem to have the IQ of hamsters, long pointless delays, and lot's of menial makework. Also remember those Drill Sergeants who teach you how to be a soldier are not the NCOs who will be your team/squad leaders. One of the most common complaints I hear from fresh out of basic soldiers is: "That's not how we did it at Ft Benning!". As an older guy who's used to dealing to an at least semi-efficient business environment the military way may be a little exasperating, but once you learn how to work it you should do well.

Best of Luck!!
Hooah!

[SgtMuhammed]

One other bit of advice. Never find yourself in the situation where you have to say, "I came here to train not to make friends." That always means you just screwed your buddies.

Just keep a good attitude and do everything to the best of your ability (and if you aren't good at something then try harder) and you will be fine.

Another thing I just thought of: Once you get to your unit (and by the way, you will go your entire career searching for the "real" unit that everyone talks about) if you don't want to end up in the training room or as the CO's RTO try to hide any typing or computer skills you may have until you get established in a line platoon. Admin skills are usually lacking in an infantry company and the HQ platoon is quick to snatch those guys with some aptitude. So if you want to stay a trigger puller you need to impress your PSG enough that he will refuse to give you up. There is no finer feeling than being part of a good squad of young life takers and heart breakers.

Also if you can speak another language go ahead and take the test to get the language identifier, it will put a little extra in your pocket on payday.

Have fun on Sand Hill.

Tell me if the lady with the throat mic is still issuing class A's.

[birdstrike]

Going to get those sound files right from the source, huh? ;)

You got quite some guts to take that step, I'm really impressed.

I've never been in the army, so I don't have any useful advice. Nevertheless good luck for your endeavor, and I hope you'll still find the chance to stick around here from time to time.

[M1A1TC]

Here are some things might be helpful that I found online if you get deployed in combat zone:



1. Always wear your issued ballistic goggles. You ‘should ‘get issued WileyX goggles with both clear and tinted lenses. If not, buy your own ballistic goggles before you go over. Wear them 24/7 when you’re outside your FOB. I can’t count the amount of people that lost eyes from IED attacks because they were not wearing their goggles. Wear them!!

2. Wear your SAPI plates! They have saved countless lives by stopping 7.62 rounds and huge chunks of shrapnel…They weigh a ton and you’ll sweat like a whore in church while wearing them but they will save your life.

3. Always keep your hands inside of the armor side plates when riding in the back of a HMMWV. The tendency to rest your weapon on the armor, pointing outboard, with your hand outstretched holding the barrel in the ready position is natural but extremely dangerous. If an IED hits, you WILL lose your arm….

4. Know your AO like the back of your hand. It’s the single most improtant way you will be able to identify IED’s before they get you. You will be traveling the same roads over and over again day after day. Do not sit in the HMMWV and jerk around while you’re out there. Memorize every dirt mound, light pole, stop sign, garbage pile, depression, car, etc in your AO. In time you will be able to ‘sense’ that there is something not right about a certain spot or object on the road. For example: We noticed one day that a stop sign in our AO was missing from an intersection. Miraculously, it reappeared the next day. BIG RED FLAG!! We stopped at a distance, circled around behind it, and found that they had removed it, lined the back of the sign with a ½ inch layer of plastic explosives with ball bearings embedded in it, and then replaced it on the pole. Had we not recognized that it was missing and then reappeared, and continued to drive by it, it would have decimated us as it was 6’ off the ground (head level above the level of a HMMWV’s armor plating). Know your AO!!

Platter charges are in fashion here, and cost less on the black market than a RPG round or a 155 round. Do the math folks.
We generally use the Brit method of 5 meter sweeps within the first 10 minutes of a stop, and circle 1 meter further per 2-3 minutes while halted. Amazing finds.....

I would like to add to the know your AO rule. That is to learn the locals in your AO also. My experience has been that the children will almost always approach us, when they keep their distance my "oh **** this dosn't feel right" alarm goes off. If the locals are openly anti-American that is obvious, but many will tell you if Ali-Babba is in the AO. Take what they tell you with some caution, but don't disregard it all together.

Trust your feelings, if it dosn't feel right it probably isn't.


5. If you’re HMMWV has a fording stack, get rid of it ASAP. It impedes the passenger’s ability to scan the side of the road for abnormalities…

6. When traveling along the MSR’s be especially wary when you drive by villages. Many IED’s are located near villages that abut the MSR because it affords the insurgents numerous hiding spots from which to command detonate the IED.

7. Beg, borrow, or steal as many tourniquets as you can. Assign one to every member of your squad or unit, teach them how to use them, and be sure it’s carried on their person 24/7. There is no way to describe the carnage that an IED or a 122 mm rocket creates. They will tear off limbs in an instant and tourniquet may be the difference between life and death if arteries are severed. Even in your FOB, where you are constantly rocketed, one should carry tourniquets….

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Gloves- The issued leather gloves are not conducive to the desert environment as they’re too thick and do not ‘breathe.’ Your hands will begin sweating almost immediately and the leather will stiffen as a result of the constant exposure to your sweat and the salt it contains. Many of my Marines bought hi-speed gloves (Hatch, Hell storm, etc) and they did not fare too well as they only lasted a month or two during hard use, especially considering how much they cost ($$$). I, on the other hand, decided to buy a half dozen pairs of the standard nomex flight gloves. Each pair lasted between one to two months. And as they became unusable, I just threw that pair out. They’re breathable, thin enough so as not to interfere with dexterity, they’re cheap, and they blend in with the environment.

Hydration Systems – the issued Camelback is not the greatest, but will definitely accomplish its intended purpose. My only suggestion, should you not wish to upgrade, is to buy some sort of on/off switch as they tend to leak. Also, a protective cover for the mouthpiece as it often finds itself in the sand.

Slings – Absolutely, positively ditch the issued two piece sling. Spend the money on a good assault sling; you will thank yourself in the long run…As to which is best? It’s a matter of personal preference, get together with a bunch of Arfcommers for a weekend shoot and try a few out (That’s what I did and ended up with an SOE sling).

Multitools – an absolute must. My personal preference is the Leatherman Wave, but there are dozens of other models that work just as well….

Socks- Ditch the issued socks ASAP. They are uncomfortable, retain water, and don’t last long. Avoid cotton socks like the plague as they retain moisture which results in blisters and fungus. Good socks to buy are synthetic wool socks as wool does not retain moisture and dries quickly. My personal preference would be the ‘light hiker’ type socks from manufacturers such as Thorlo, Smartwool, and Indian River. They are not cheap but well worth the cost….

Pistol Holsters – I’m a big advocate of drop-leg holsters as they’re more comfortable, easier to access, and allow you to doff your 782 gear without having to remove your pistol first (assuming it’s on the issued holster on your 782 gear). SOE and Blackhawk both make excellent drop-leg holsters, just be sure to order early (especially if you’re a lefty) as they’re often on backorder. Also, replace the issued lanyard with one of the ‘telephone cord’ type retention lanyards as the issued lanyard is stiff and very often catches on objects, door knobs, and other such obstructions….

Knife- I carried two; an automatic benchmade to open MRE’s and a standard USMC KaBar for the heavy stuff….This decision would be personal preference….

Magazine Pouches: A butt stock mounted single mag pouch comes in real handy when you’re at your FOB or Base, as you’re required to always carry your weapon and a magazine. It’s much easier than carrying your 782 gear or putting it in your cargo pocket where it’s not as easy to access. Also, if you’re issued an M9, absolutely ditch the issued magazines (especially the Checkmates) and bring your own original Beretta mags. The issued mags are notorious for failing.

Cleaning Gear- A bore snake came in extremely handy for that ‘quick’ cleaning job between regular cleanings. Also, bring a dozen or so small 1” wide paintbrushes (chip brushes) as they’re excellent for brushing the sand off your weapon…….

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First and foremost I am an 11B, but as an Armorer, I cover down under Supply. I have a list of NSN's that I used to get some "HighSpeed, LowDrag' stuff, the source for the cheat sheets were the 2nd Ranger PBO, and a few Aviation ALSCE shops on Ft Lewis. (Thanks Guys, you were a huge help, I owe ya.) I'll post the more critical/cool ones here y'all to give your supply section at a later date.

I'm focusing on the comfort stuff. Operation details is something you'll develop, but here's the biggest points to consider.
LISTEN to the personnel that have been here already. IED's Car bombs and random shots fired are a way of life, EVERYWHERE. The bottom line basics are muzzles out, eyes out, wear eye/ear and all the Kevlar protection you are offered.
You're NEVER really "Safe" here, it's just relative levels of danger. IF something looks, sounds feels suspicious, then it most likely IS. When the crowds and kids disappear, or traffic is below normal, YOU ARE ABOUT TO GET HIT.
Learn some Farsi, the DLI has excellent training aids, key words cards, and Audio Cd's available. Building ******* with the locals is paramount.
YOU HAVE TO HAVE BOOTS ON THE GROUND TO OWN IT, not just a daily mounted patrol whizzing by the populace. Buy fruit and veggies at the markets, ask questions, $2 USD at a vegetable stall can yield a lot of goodwill.
I ran LogPac missions for 5 months in an unarmored LMTV, with a scrapmetal armored 998 Hummer as a wingman, 35 kilometers each way, through "Unsecured" territory, twice a day. We were only seriously and directly hit twice, and both times we believe that was not specifically planned for us, and that we were were a target of opportunity. Do NOT be afraid to be aggressive, fire warning shots, point guns at people and generally act as if you will kill the next MF'r who gets in your way. Drive as if you mean it, and with a purpose. Follow your ROE, and your threat escalation. Don't cause unnecessary harm or injury, but don't be afraid to pull the damn trigger.

What worked for me:
Keep in mind that my unit is Mech Infantry and we've known in advance that we had a fixed site/FOB we would be assigned to for the duration of our deployment. What worked for us won't really work for units expected to live out of rucksacks for a year.

UnderArmor-Worth their weight in gold. I prefer the loose gear version.

Socks- The USMC over the calf type. By far the best, and very much the same as the RFI issued ones.

Gloves- Plain Jane thin black shooter's gloves OR Napa Mechanix gloves.

Tactical Tailor-Gets a big nod. The gear the sell works, works well, and is well designed. I prefer their ammo pouches over the MOLLE Issued one, as their Tactical Thigh holster for the 9mm is the best going.

CamelBack- The BlackHawk issued one SUCKS, as does the RFI issued one.

Battery Operated Lantern- Any D cell batt Op lantern will do. The generators often go out here, for a couple of hours/days at a time.

Pinch Light- By far the best $7 I've spent in a few years.

Multitool The issue Gerber is "OK", I prefer the Leatherman "Wave". Politics aside, I got mine through the supply system, but i would pay the bucks for one.

K-Bar can't beat the design, but for a gen purp blade, I was fortunate enough to secure a Benchmade Auto. Past that, spend the bucks and get a QUALITY 3" folder, that opens with one hand. Can't tell you how many El Cheapo $5-$35 I've seen fail or even better, cause the user harm when it did fail. A good Whetstone or Lansky Diamond hone/kit is also vital.

Trioxianene Tabs-I am a coffee fiend first thing in the AM. My boss won't even talk to me until I've had a cup. I've cooked Ramen and coffee in my canteen cup with heat tabs since before i came in the Army, and you just can't mess with a system that works....

Deep Woods OFF!-The chiggers, sand flea, and other bugs will eat your ass alive here in the spring. The flies with overwhelm you in the fall.

Rat and Mouse traps- Available in the supply system, units should bulk up on them.

Gel Hand Sanitizer- I've been "well" for most of the deployment, but am fanatical about washing/sanitizing my digits.

Folding chair- Since your living room will be "Wherever" for a year, you WILL need someplace to park your ass. I've been through 3 chairs, and this last one *might* make it.

Thumb Drive, Digital Camera-Invaluable. Don't bother with a film camera. Or an expensive one. the 3.3 MegaPixel Walmart Vivitar work great. There are also some good "deals" here on the street. More about that later.

GameBoy/Laptop-IF you bear the expense, they're well worth the investment. there are often L-O-N-G stretches with nothing to do.

Bottled Propane/Single burner Stove- With one small pot and frying pan, you can cook anything.

Breadmaker- No ****, there I was....seriously, one of the guys in my section received one the other month, and we wondered why we didn't think of it sooner. The bread mixes we are getting from home are ready to use with just water. HUGE morale booster since our chow is trucked in and sits in a mermite for 2-3 Hours before serving. Just fry up some Spam on the propane stove, Viola!

Ramen-I've been living on it for the better part of a year, my wife send a case of the Kimchi Bowl type every month. That and Tuna fish packages. I can get mayo and relish from the DFAC, crackers from the PX and MRE's.


I CANNOT STRESS THIS ENOUGH. EXPLAIN TO EVERYONE YOU KNOW, THAT WHILE YOU APPRECIATE SOAP, LAUNDRY POWDER, AND SUCH, TO PLEASE(!) SEND IT SEPERATE FROM FOODSTUFFS. I CANNOT TELL YOU HOW MANY TIDE-FLAVORED LIFESAVERS I'VE EATEN AND ZESTFULLY CLEAN BROWNIES SUCK BUTT.


The PX/AAFES is getting better about supporting our needs. If you can get to one. Balad, and BIAP(Including the Victory Camps) have very large well run, well supported facilities, and food courts. Baghdad, the Green Zone is so/so...

Now, there are "deals" here. Fake Rolexes, Persian rugs, pirated DVD's, X-box, PS2 & PC games. Anything 110 needs a converter, which is easily obtainable here, the 220V electricity here will fry anything 110 plugged into it. Just remember to haggle, EVERYTHING IS NEGOTIABLE HERE, the price stated is not what you are expected to pay. I always counter offer roughly 2/3's of what is asked. (Hell, I've offered 10% of the asking price and have paid it.)
The interpreter’s you inherit/hire are the BEST sources for most of the stuff, the street urchins will offer DVD's the going rate in Baghdad is $3 per disk.
A carton of Camels off the street are about $13, Marlboro Reds are $5 BUT, these are export versions, and take getting used to.
Snuff is often in short supply. PLAN on depending on folks back home to support your filthy, nasty habit. (I quit dipping and smoking...now I do one or the other.)


----------------------------

If you work on or near the perimeter, get a 4X-6X scope. You can see better what the locals are actually doing. Red dots are great for urban ops. Much faster on target.

Hesco Barriers have a Hesco brand Leatherman inside in case you lost yours. (If the REMFs haven't stolen it).

If you deal with the local workers on base, give them small gifts like cheap Jersey gloves to keep there hands warm. They tend to get real loyal to you if you show you care about them. Bring them Ice and water in the summer. Same reason.

Always go "Red" status (round in chamber, weapon on safe) when on or near the perimeter. Weird **** happens fast and you need to be ready.

SPF 45 sunblock in the summer. It has gotten so hot, I burned my bare hands on my own weapon. A sunburn while wearing tactical gear is no joke.

Learn some of the basic lingo and learn Arabic numbers. Helps to determine fake IDs. Example- 45 year old male with a birth date of 1990.

If something looks funny or suspicious. STOP THE ACTIVITY AND INVESTIGATE. I see guys walking past locals workers not wearing ID badges all the time. (How did the bomber get into the Mosul chow hall?)

Go ask your S4 how FOO money works and what you can use it for. It's much faster than getting a contract to get work done on the base.

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If you wear glasses, take 2 sets of clear lenses and 2 sets of tinted lenses. They will only last about 6 months before they are sandblasted too much to see out of. If you are getting military birth control glasses, get the smallest frame that will fit your head. My issue glasses are so large, they interfear with my helmet.

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One small thing I've found works awsome. A water bottle cooler.

Find some scrap styrofoam sheets (stereo, refrigerator packing, something about 3/4 inch thick) cut it strips 1/2 inch or so thick, about the length of a water bottle. Lay 3 or 4 strips of duct-tape down and set the styrofoam strips across them with slight gaps. Roll it around the water bottle and cut off whatever needed to make it a fairly tight fit. Wrap it with more tape and then make a circular piece of foam for the bottom attaching and covering with tape.

If the bottle fits too tight don't worry, it'll loosen up. If you put in a bottle that's ice-cold it'll stay cold until you're done drinking it. I've left mine sitting in direct sunlight (silver or white tape probably works better) for hours and it was still cold. It's alot better than downing the last of the bottle only to find out it's warm and alot easier than taking it in and out of a cooler.

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Issued Aimpoint kits with the A2 carry handle mounts suck. They move and the wings next to the carry handle eventually break. I upgraded my A2 to an A4 with a flat top and M4 RAS. Spent $$$ but worth the investment. Tango down grips are way better than the issue Knights VG. I've seen a few break and the feel of the Tango Down is much better.

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1. FOB's are not bad. They provide basics with comfort.
2. Running water and shoers, at least where I am.
3. Holster: Safariland 6004 with 2 mag pouch (sold at BX)-plentiful.
4. I wear glasses, so I bought a 10 dollar pair of goggles that fit over my glasses. (sells at BX)
5. Knife: My folding Kershaw for GP. I have K-Bar if the need arises.
6. S.O.B. m-16 Mag pouch suck as they come, need Malice clips to fit firmly on vest.
7. Pistol lanyard at BX works fine, no need for an expensive one.
8. Good insoles for your boots, because you walk everywhere.

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I cannot stress this enough. If you see something funny/strange, stop all activity in the immediate area and check it out. I found drug smuggling, holes in the perimeter, a land mine, and a tunnel they were digging under our base by checking out something that looked funny.

--------------------------

concur with all the above. one new trick for medics, scrounge blood pressure cuffs and keep them with you they ake a really broad base tornequit/pressure dressing assit. easy to go on easy to adjust pressure and the pressure is spread out over a larger area which will do considerably less damage while applied or when removed

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When I got into Iraq last year the first person I looked for was the guy who had the most combat time and incountry time out of the group. Listen to the veterans they got all the answers. As for gear everyone has covered it. I recommend tring to find a M1014 Multipurpose Kabar($150). Its a Kabar/bayo all in one. Its light, sharp and can go very deep into a ribcage. I replaced my old Kabar for that. Try to find manuals for common middle eastern weapons. Read up on what your enemy has, because just in case **** happens you might need a backup weapon fast.

--------------------------

We learned a lesson the hard way when we lost our first Trooper over here. The uparmored M1114 HMMWVs your unit will draw in theater come with a nice armored turret for the M2 / Mk19 / M240 gunner on the roof. These turrets have a sling seat for the gunner like any HMMWV with a roof hatch. Our gunners were all told to sit low in the hatch ("helmet defilade") and only come up if their patrol comes under attack because of the high casualty rate among gunners who scanned the road at "nametag defilade" early on in OIF.

A great Trooper from my S3 section was killed a month ago when an artillery round detonated next to his HMMWV. The intial blast and shrapnel probably caused the wounds that he died from, but the turret was also blown of the roof of the HMMWV by the IED and thrown about 10 meters from the vehicle. The sling seat carried him with it.

If you have time and resources, see if your mechanics or shop guys can fabricate seats for your gunners that sit on top of a short pole that's bolted to the floor of the HMMWV between the seats. Our guys used MRE boxes as a temporary fix until they could find something else. It might not help in every case, but if it saves one guy, it's worthwhile.

I haven't heard this before - it certainly wasn't mentioned to us before we deployed - so I'd be curious to hear if anyone else has experience with this issue. FWIW,

Dave
Camp Stryker, Iraq

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Our unit training at Fort Benning (of all places) was a total fiasco. It was simply training to fill in a check box, rather than "BATTLE-FOCUSED" training. We had a bunch of FOBbit signal corps idiots wearing the "acorn" patch, acting as if they were drill instructors rather than OC's. Instead of focusing on mission essential tasks, it seemed they mainly emphasized how to conduct FPOC/guard duty and how to run and hide from their artillery simulators, rather than how to operate effectively outside a FOB. That USAR training unit wasn't particularly helpful at all. As opposed to being a facilitator of training, they were in fact a hinderance to training.

Our 8-week stay at Fort Benning prior to deployment would have been more productive if all we did was commo, medical/cls, crew-served weapons, driving on patrol, and PT. And more COMMO.

At Fort Benning, Commo training wasn't even brought up. Before deploying to Iraq, I would strongly suggest training extensively on commo. Practice entering a fill, practice entering freqs manually, practice setting GPS time, practice actually driving around in a humvee calling in checkpoints and to different task forces as you enter/leave their AO. Trouble-shooting radio problems and fixing them while on the fly are essential skills out here.

Note that you can use your Garmin to set GPS time. Set your Garmin GPS to London time and remember to subtract one hour, since London is currently at British Summer Time (BST) which is in fact Zulu+1. BST is in effect from end of March until the end of October.

Practice calling in SPOT/SALTY reports, practice IEDs/UXO, practice 9 line medevac. For the IEDs and Medevac, give different scenarios (have a bunch of 3x5 cards with scenarios) and call it up. For IEDs do surface-laid, buried, suspended/elevated, wireless or wired, decoy with possible secondary, possible VBIED, unknown/suspicious. For medical have medics fill-out 3x5 cards with different injuries.

Practice using Blue Force Tracker (BFT), connecting, turning on, shutting down, plotting CPs and boundaries, doing reports and messaging. Unfortunately, civilian instructors at Leonard Wood and at Kuwait use laptops to teach. The Army has to change this. Hands on inside a humvee plugging in cables, pushing buttons, and using the stylus is the only way to learn.

As for weapons training...
The M16 zero range was 6 miles from where we stayed and the Qualification range was 10 to 15 miles away from the zero range which wasted training time shuttling soldiers from range to range. Once at the Qual range, NBC fire was performed before the Qual attempt (I've never seen that before). And there was no 20-round familiar fire at the pop-ups prior to Qualifying. Finally, Marksmanship instruction was provided only after a soldier boloed. WTF? As for CQB/reflex fire (a 25 meter course), the idiot OC's wouldn't let our soldiers who boloed M16 do the Reflex fire. None of our bolos had any trouble hitting the 50m target on the M16 qual range; hence, I fail to see why they wouldn't allow them to shoot reflex. This wasted more valuable training days.

After all that, crew-served fire was conducted for primaries and not for everbody. Our platoons made sure everyone knew how to disassembe/assemble, load, shoot, and clear our M2s. However, not everyone had a chance to shoot. Also, training should involve firing M2s from humvees (our main platform) stationary and on the move while shooting stationary and moving targets. Again training wasn't battle-focused.

They did try to give us convoy training at Ft. Benning, but the "acorn" people teaching were clueless. Some of their solutions for certain scenarios made no tactical sense. They frowned upon us being aggressive and employing fire and maneuver against an OPFOR being a few feet away. Only 20 rounds of blank M16 ammo for a convoy course with 5 scenarios. Also, they had us patrolling in 5-ton dumps. No humvee gun platforms.

They should have trained us in similar equipment and combat configuration as units in theater. For training, the Army needs to include Driving at combat speed, dealing with civilian traffic, setting up Flash TCPs, urban sweep, cordon and search, self recovery, etc.

Note: On M1114s, there is a M16 weapon rack at the feet of the right rear passenger. Soldiers sitting at the right rear passenger always get their foot stuck by this while exiting the vehicle. Whoever designed this feature is a total moron. It is held there by two bolts. We removed all ours.



Thank God we have good senior NCOs in the line platoons, all with years of prior active service.


--------------------

As for gear and personal items to leave behind/bring...

Do NOT buy any camelbaks, LBVs/tactical vests, pistol belt, goggles, Wiley Xs, Nomex gloves, winter gloves, a case of AA batteries, balaclava, buttpack, bellville boots, fancy BDU belt, face paint, solar battery charger, solar shower, transformer, power strip, 220v plug adapter, DVD movies, fleece jacket, wool cap, polypros, canteens, night vision, weight set, boom box, 100 mph tape, ghillie suit, water filter, machete/kukri.

You don't need half this crap, and if so, you will be issued everything at CIF and RFI. 100 mph tape and batteries you can buy at a PX in Iraq. Electrical stuff and movies you can buy from Haji at your FOB. Try not to carry too much stuff. I showed up at Fort Jackson and then to Fort Benning with almost a full duffle bag and a laptop. I left Benning with three tightly packed duffle bags and a laptop, and a fourth duffle in a conex. Alot of the issued web gear, gloves and winter clothing/boots still sits in one duffle bag collecting dust. We got issued two camelbaks, and everyone wore them at Benning. Out here no one wears them; we just load coolers in our humvees with frozen water bottles while on patrol.

Things to bring... a bandana/do-rag to keep the dust out of your nose and mouth, a good watch, Garmin gps, multiplier, if you really have to just bring one combat knife, knife sharpener, sat phone (if you can afford it), laptop, digital camera, usb thumb drive, poncho liner, color pens (Staedler), Erasermate pens, USGI canvas map case if you're a leader or ditch the case get one of the high speed desert colored backpacks at the PX, M16 mag pouches for OTV/IBAS, compass, any LED flashlight, CD player or iPod, binoculars, trijicon optics.

If you are a computer geek bring MS Office, Visio, MS Project, Adobe Acrobat, antivirus, ghost, Dreamweaver, Fireworks, Flash, Photoshop, Gimp, external hard drive.

If you are an network geek bring Win2K/W2K3 Server, WinXPproSP2, MS Exchange, Password hack by Petter Nordhal, a bag (100pcs) of RJ-45 connectors, crimpers (Cat-5 is easy to find), Ethereal, a portscanner, Linux/FreeBSD, Unreal IRCd.

---------------------

^^Damm. We are in almost identical units, doing very similar missions, and our ore-deploymnet training was equally worthless and run by the same bunch of fools.

Go figure.

I will put a big +1 for everything he said and add that if you coming here to Afghanistan go heavier on the snivel gear and stuff, as it is in much shorter supply here than Iraq. However, my guys all mailed footlockers to themselves and I had 8 boxes at home packed with various things, and when I got here and saw what I was going to need I just called hom and said "send box 2, 4, 5, 7" and got it. Damm sure don't stock up on DVD's coming here, they are all $3.

For the network geeks, go down to the motorpool and get them to order 5935-01-400-1495 it is a RJ-45 jack that doesn't need crimpers just pliers and works well.

---------------------

Question: What about Ear-Pro - it is something to consider in getting some of the molded electronic in the ear systems before deploying.

Answer: Theoretically, yes. Practically, No....Wearing earplugs on patrol, especially at night, dulls your senses and ability to hear oncoming vehicles and anybody walking up on your patrol. Also, the few people that constantly wore them on patrol developed chronic ear infections from the moisture that builds up in the ear canal and does not evaporate, and the fact that the earplugs themselves collect bacteria from the moisture accumulated from constant wearing.....Sadly, the alternative, of which i am living proof, is partial hearing loss and tinnitus from constantly firing your weapon or standing next to crew served weapons when they go off. Ultimately it will be an individual choice as to whether one wears them or not....

----------------------

^^ Anyone wearing ear cover or plugs a lot can usually avoid ear infections by simply putting a medicine dropper of plain rubbing alcohol (70% is best but any will do--higher % just burns a little) in each ear once each day (twice might be better depending on wear time). A medicine dropper is the best way to apply, so you don't pour it into your eyes when applying. Get the home folks to put a couple in your next care package.
That's board-certified-MD advice, by the way (my ENT MD, not me). It has worked for me for quite a while. I never have an ear infection--have no ear damage, no hearing loss, no bad effects at all.
=======================

Wow

Reading your words about Ft Benning is like hearing myself reflect upon my Camp Shelby training. It was all about "Checking the Box" as you said. Were we anywhere besides Eastern Diyala, we would have lost alot more killed than we have had currently. So far I have been the turret gunner with a 50 cal, 240 and 249 and I didn't fire one single shot at Camp Shelby with any of these weapons. Trying to hold a 50 on target while you are chasing a Land Cruiser through a waddi system is not the time to be learning how to shoot from a moving vehicle.

The range instructors there were so arrogant that when I informed them that I was a current member of the All-Guard Highpower Rifle team, they told me that my assistance as a shooting coach was not needed and that since I was at that time still an E4, I would not be even allowed on the line to coach shooters who requested it as only NCO's were allowed to do that.

I don't think that anyone has mentioned this yet, but when we came we were still being issued and continue to use woodland OTV's. One thing I found out on MSR overwatch missions trying to catch IED planters was that you can see woodland at night a looooooooonnnnnnggggg way away. I got a plate carrier (front and back) from blackhawk in Coyote tan just to cover my OTV on the way out to OP's. Color contrast is a big problem in the sand where I am. I think most people are being issued desert colored vests now, but if you get woodland and plan on being out overnight, plan to cover that up somehow.

As for the climate, it is freakning hot half the year and damn cold in the morning the rest of the time. You spend half of the year wishing it would rain and the other half hoping you never see rain again cause when it does rain, it floods (at least where I am, the climate in Iraq varies widely). If you even think you will be gunning on a vehicle in the winter, bring a face mask of some kind. I was issued real good lined leather gloves which I wore for several months when gunning (50) and my fingers would still go numb. Another set of Quality gloves won't take up too much room.

As far as camelbacks, I have no idea where mine even is. Frozen solid waterbottles form the TOC is the way to go. Believe me, they don't stay frozen long in the summer. When I had to walk into an OP at night (2-3K max), I just put them into the pack with the radio, plgr, batteries, etc. Also the bottles are handy to piss in while rolling.

9mm mag pouches are handy for folding knives and for keeping a spare 50 case to use under the butterflies as a safety, since that is the only safety a 50 has and unless you are only on smooth roads (unlikely) you will get thrown into the butterflies.

One last note, nametag defilade is a deathsentance. Keep your gunners head down. He can see all he needs to see through the slot where the barrel of the csw goes through the shield. He can stand if the shooting starts. The IED's are not like you see in a movie. They toss around vehicles like toys. We had 3KIA in an 1114 that thrown 30 meters in the air. No that is not a typo. 30 meters.

Best of luck to those of you yet to come here.

----------------------------

Recommendations based one what I wished I had because what I had was crap:

- better sling than a standard "parade" sling. I just rigged mine with some 550 cord but a "tactical" sling would have been nicer to have.

- a better ruck than an ALICE pack or CFP-90. I had a CFP-90 and a Piper Gear.
The CFP-90 is nice if you don't need to have any sort of organization of your stuff.
For my purposes I needed to be able to pack things in a way that would allow me to get to them at any given time without rifling through it or dumping the contents on the ground.

The Piper worked ok, but it's not a pack I liked using because it's "cheap". I reinforced parts of it I expected to break and had no problems but I'd have preferred the Kifaru Marauder I have now.

- Rifle Optics. Any kind would have been better than nothing. My unit later deployed with Aimpoints, so they learned from the previous shortcoming.

- Velcro uniform. We had all of our patches, badges, and name tags sewn on prior to deploying, had to take them off when we got there, and sewn back on later... it was the stupidest thing ever.

- Surefire or equivalently bright flashlight. A AA powered Mag Light isn't worth a ****. Bring extrabatteries or have your supply section order a case or five.

- A Camelback if you don't always need a large ruck everywhere you're going. Had one and couldn't have been happier with it.

- Camera... anything to take pictures with. Document your trip. You won't regret it.

----------------------------

No longer on active duty(got out of the Army in '98), but I've been working as a civilian contractor in Kuwait sinc May of '05. Most of it outside in the heat/cold/wind/sand...

I don't need high speed tactical gear or weapon accessories, but after being here for a while I have picked up on a couple of things that work.

Socks- I'm required to wear steel-toe safety boots on the job, which get REALLY hot. I spend a lot of time on my feet as well. I've found the most comfortable socks to be the lightweight polypropolene ones they sell at hiking/camping stores. They breath very well. Also, make sure they extend up out of your boot at least 2 or 3 inches and they'll do a good job of wicking moisture away from your feet and keeping them cool in the summer and warm in the winter. Let's face it..."swamp-foot" sucks!

Camelbacks- Some people like them, some don't. I always have a cooler of cool bottled water nearby so I don't bother carrying a Camelback. My crew of TCN'c(Indians in this case...) don't always have access to coolers of water, so they LOVE Camelbacks. I pulled a few strings to get some "excess" ones "donated" to them...

Pocket Tools and Flashlights- Never go anywhere without a Leatherman tool or Gerber Multi-Plier of some sort and a small flashlight or "pinch-light". You'll need/use them at the most unexpected times. I have a small belt pouch(Nite-Ize Pock-Its brand) that I carry a Gerber Multi-Plier(not the fanciest, but it's what I'm used to using and it works good enough for me) and Mag-Lite 2 "AA" flashlight in. I also have a Nova "pinch-light" on my ID badge lanyard.

Gloves- I've used a wide variety of gloves so far, from Army-issue leather work gloves(crude & uncomfortable but effective...) to Nomex flight gloves(too lightweight for the kind of work I sometimes must do). My favorites have been a pair of Hatch "Operators" that were given to me. They're the standard long version and I have been really happy with them for work use. They're showing some wear, but they should hold together until it's time for me to head home in early May. During the hot part of the Summer I wish I had a short pair, but I can't really complain considering that I got mine for free. Again, I'm not in a "tactical" situation but I appreciate well made gear.

----------------------------

Ok I am in a support role, IE NVG repair so it is my 2C

Gloves, as stated aboueve I love the Htach Operator gloves, they are not cheap, $32 hwere in Baghdad but mine have held up all tour andnd I only have to bring em to alterantiosn once to fix two small holes, tyou dont feel the heat with these gloves and my hands never sweated with em on.

Screw maglights, I have a Surefire G2Z and it is the best. the PX here stocks batteries but they are not always in stock. Right now I have 4 packs of batteries, 48 of them. PX sells a 12 pack for $17 bucks.

I prefere my Leatherman wave as I feel is better built than gerbers. I use it every day and the wear and tear shows.

My dad gave me a nice SS beretta knife when I took R&R. I so wish i had gotten a better one like that when I first got here. A lot of guys had K bars and the like.

Ammo pouches, they ones at the PX are crap, I wasent isseued any nor would my supply sustem order any so i bought my own. I swear by battlelab pouches sold by Diamondback Tactical. I had to wait a very long time for some of my pouches to due supply and demand. I jsut saw that they shipped my E&E bag after a 15 week delay, not there fault, they told me before I ordered it.

I have lots of down time so my MP3 player is worth more than gold. Mine hold 512MB and it has an FM tuner so I can listen to AFN Iraq. Make sure to bring extra headphones though, buy cheap ones.

Alas, these MoFo are pulling some last minute detail crap again and guess what, I have to do it.

----------------------------

While I did not serve in the US military or in Iraq, I did serve in the IDF in a combat unit. Tactical advice is tactical advice and everything here is great! One thing I would like to add as a comfort trick: Vasaline and Q-tips! The air in the middle east is dryer than dry and the inside of your nose will dry up, crack and start bleeding. Put a little Vaseline on a Q-tip and swab the inside surface of each nostril. This will keep it nice and moist and alleviate the discomfort. IT will attract some dust/ fine sand (especially if you deploy from helicopters), so keep a small container of it with some Qtips on you to redo it as needed.

----------------------------

Pretty much everyone in my unit including me is a gear queer so I have a few things to say here.

I have a lot of stuff from TAG (Tactical Assault Gear). I have some BDS/SOE gear and a few Blackhawk things.

-The enhanced 9mm mag pouches are great because they have magnets in them. They are strong enough to hold a mag on the outside of the pouch while you walk around. They are also the perfect size for a surefire G2 or 6P.

-The M16 mag pouches are far better than issue gear. When outside the wire tuck the top inside the pouch and you'll have quick and easy access to your mags, again no worry about them falling out. I have both TAG and Balckhawk pouches. The MOLLE webbing attachments on the TAG gear is much better than the Blackhawk. Not that the Blackhawk would fall off, but the TAG is just better, and that reflects and overall higher attention to detail IMO.

-Depending on your job consider a drop leg platform. Mag pouches, etc are much more accessible there than on the chest. Especially in the prone when you're trying to stay low.

-Safariland drop holster for the 9mm - outstanding piece of gear but the springs can wear after a few years.

-Gemtech lanyard for the 9mm, outstanding. Regardless of brand, get a lanyard, better than fishing that 9 mil out of the portajohn.

-I have a simple H-harness from BDS tactical in oceanside, ca, and a duty belt from TAG. Drop holster on the right, drop leg platform on the right with 4 M16 mags and 2 9mm mags plus 2 grenade pouches at the bottom. Drop pouch for mags or random items I want to take from different places on left rear. My flak goes over it and everything works well for me. I have no problems running, jumping, etc.

-Gloves - Damascus nomex are great. They last for years. They'll get dirty but they will last. DO NOT cut the fingers out, they are nomex for a reason.

-Flashlights - I have too many (surefires). I have a G2, a 6P, a 9P, an M3, and an A2. The M3 is on my M4, the A2 in my pocket, the G2 and 6Ps are in my medbags. The 9P is a backup for the M3. If I had to choose one and wasn't going to mount it on a weapon I would buy the A2. LEDs for long runtime but also has a powerful regular beam as well, if you want to turn it on. Best bang for the buck is the 6P. 9P is the same thing but more powerful. The M3 is just overkill. I have also owned several L2s, they are outstanding flashlights and are a bit cheaper than the A2. Still a lot of money for junior enlisted.

-Knives - I have 2 Emersons, 2 Benchmades, and a Buck. Plus the armory gave me a Kabar AND a Bayonet. Those 2 are pieces of crap. The emersons are great but the finish comes off easily. The Benchmade I have is the Skirmish, with BenchKote on the blade and handle. It doesn't chip off like the Emerson coating. For cutting 550 cord, clothing, etc buy a Benchmade Rescue Hook, nothing cuts 550 cord like it. Or clothing, for that matter. Benchmades are easier to find, too. Get a coated one with a 154CM or S30V blade.

-Boots. I have 2 sets of Magnum Amazons. They are great, and the cheapest name brand I found. Oakleys and Converses are good for limited use but come apart under day after day pounding.

-Enetertainment. PSP. Enough said. Books are plentiful everywhere I've been.

- I don't smoke, but stateside Marlboros are powerful bargaining tools.

-Glasses. Your BAS/RAS/medical people should be able to get you those. ESS goggles are great, the glasses give me double vision with prescription inserts in.

-Sling. 3 point or single point. Single point not so good for me because sometimes I need the rifle behind me to work on casualties. Make sure you get the right sling - M4 and M16 are different. shocking! But sometimes the armory screws with you and gives you an M16A4 then an M4. Thats another story...

I will think of more stuff later...Tango Down grips are indeed great.

-----------------------------

No matter what you do or bring...it sucks. My only advice (as a Platoon Leader) is this: when your sucking real bad and need to reassure yourself and your competence....just look at everyone else sucking and try and find someone who's sucking worse than you. I literally rucked the skin off of my feet and in some places down to the flesh as a Ranger PL in the 'Stan. I couldnt tell you how many times i wanted to just fall to the sand and freaking give up. I was the mother-fraggen PL and there was no way in hell I could have fallen out w/o the platoon sustaing SEVERE moral damage.

Seemed that I was always dehydrated and when something could go wrong, it did. We had stuff when we didnt need it and didnt have enough "stuff" when we did need it. Ass-backwards I tell ya.

Ohh, another piece of advice....the Army loves to say this one...DRINK WATER!

For you recruits who are joining soon.....take basic training seriously. the "stupid" AND I MEAN "STOOOOPID" **** that your Drill SGT's are going to have you doing is for a reason. It is to instill discpline into you guys. I am on a training post now...Ft. Leonard Wood and know quite a few DS's here. These guys want you to succeed and make the mission. You are going to hate them.....that's the way it's supposed to be. If you like them, they haven't done there job. However, one day when your ass is patrolling the mountains of the 'Stan you will think back and understand what it was all about. If you're lucky you will go to Benning (home of the infantry) where basic training is considered "harder".

I guess I'm just rambling, hope this can help someone.

Ohh 70% of you newbies going through will be in theatre within a year.

-----------------------------

Try and have a CLS in each gun truck if you see alot of road time. It might be a little while before a medic can get to that truck if it was just hit by an ied and you are in an ambush.

You will l learn that there is not too much you can do about the mosuitoes.

Don't keep asking battalion to have a CC route flown over residentail areas instead of just MSR's and ASR's. The remf's tend to think of you as crazy, inhumane, or you need to see the wizards.

Gunners get down when you are at an overpass, don't start clearing it 10m away, start further back so you can be down before the ied goes off.

When you are halted, 5/25's always, always,always!

Commo training- make sure all your people can use an ancd. Fills can be lost, radios get off time.

Don't ever straddle a pot hole in the road and definitely not any animal carcasses.

Watch for boxes and other objects in the road as they may not be the ied, they can be used as a channeling device to bring you closer when you avoid such items.

Trash is everwhere, especially water bottles. They get dusty or mud dries on them, through nvg's it will look like a round. WAtch this cause what you think is water bottle could be a wired round.

Always carry pogey bait in the trucks. If you are on a cordon for awhile or doing rs or rre, it can get hungry and tiring for your people.

Leadership- take care of your people and they will take care of you.

Everyone stay safe and don't take any chances.

------------------------------

If you get bored, go find the SF 18B guys. They can talk intelligently about guns and they have cool toys. Maybe even extra KAC stuff.

-------------------------------

hmm very intresting to hear everyones sugestions. I was over there for OIF 1 and three monthes of OIF 2. The whole time was spent in a tent and first six monthes had no AC. I hear they pretty much fixed that problem. Riddle me this what is Hauge Ice?

I found that if you took a garlic viatmin once a day it helped with the sand fleas. As for camel backs. If you are on foot patrol alot they are nice. I found that I would empty one faster then I could fill it. funny how you can drink so much water and not urinate.

As for the nice to haves. If your supply sarg is worth a damn they should be able to get anything you can imagine. It's just getting them to everyone. My experience has been they only hook up the select. You do know all those goodies they trade among themselves were bought with their money. The old saying supply, motors, and mess will make you or break you. so don't piss them off. If your supply sergeant doesn't know what they are doing. Get them trained. My supply was broke over there.

Remember that if its really quiet and the kids are sparse watch out. Watch the feet also. The average person over there does not wear boots. I'm a mechanic so I will also preach about checking you vehicles. Take care of them you might need it to un ass a kill zone in a hurry. I know the name of the game for convoys has changed. We stayed on our side of the road respected other drivers even the civilians. We just did it and seventy five mile per. Not the 45 that oif 2 was doing when I left. forcing all vehicles off the road when moving.

Final advice. If you're a supply convoy your mission is to get the stuf to the war fighters. Don't stop and engage. Un ass the kill zone with cover fire. Every soul that deployed with us came home. Two million miles traveled.

Stay safe all of you over there and yet to go.

ps good job drink plenty of water.. then drink some more...

[permanent666]

there was a time in my life i wanted to go to to "war", or at least see some real action. i even browsed the internet if there is a possibility for me, as an austrian citizen, to join the us-army.
it was an "act" of desperation because my girl-friend left me and i was unhappy with my job-situation.
now i am really happy that i came to my senses again.

i think war-gaming and the media draw a wrong image, a romantic image of war. blood, death, killing human beeings, horrible injuries are the real faces of war.
bear in mind that you can get killed or what i think is even worse, disabled.

i hope you didn't do this out of desperation!

good luck

[Rocky Balboa]

Mord,

Wow for my mid-life crysis I bought a 65 GTO but seriously I respect your commitment at this point in life. Lots of great advice from everyone here but I will add one more. Take a bible when you leave for basic and remember Philippians 4:13. Good Luck and let us hear from you when you can.

[Clavicula_Nox]

@ Clavicula Nox; Yeah, I couldn't do airborne, it'd scare the crap outta me. I am not a heights guy, that 40 foot wall is gonna be scary for me...probably my biggest obstacle to overcome.

It's really not that bad. Just one leg over, and then the other..after that, it's all you.


Bigduke's post is spot on. Everything he said is gold.

[purpheart23]

It's really not that bad. Just one leg over, and then the other..after that, it's all you.


Bigduke's post is spot on. Everything he said is gold.

Agreed Clavicula, When I went to Air Assault School in Fort Campbell, I was deathly afraid of the "confidence climb" and the "tough one". You just have to go with the flow when you get to the top, cause gravity will eventually bring you back to earth....it's just how do you want to get there? I would tell you not to look down but you will when your about halfway up it anyways. :) It's really not that bad.

[Alan8325]

I haven't served, but I imagine you will do just fine as long as you prepare physically first, especially running, as others have said. I've heard that some of the best marathon runners are in their 30's and 40's.

As long as I'm in this thread about joining the service, does anyone have info on how officer candidate schools work for those who have never served? I've considered both the Army and Navy OCS's but have only talked to a Navy recruiter who told me to take the aviation selection test battery (ASTB) first, before discussions on officer positions. Apparently it started as an aviation-only test but got adopted as a general officer aptitude test for all kinds of navy officers. I haven't taken it yet but have looked at some online study guides. You can take it a maximum of 3 times total.

I am 27 and have graduated from college, twice. Once with a bachelor's in high-tech business management with minor in computer science and then a master's in business.

[Lee]

Sounds cool, have fun getting to shoot the guns and blow away terrorists. haha :) Be sure to send us pictures from the front, and shoot video of any air strikes you witness and any good shoot outs. And we expect at least DVD quality on the video, with great sound quality to match, so don't compress it very much, none of that youtube junk. :)

[Bigduke6]

Alan8325,

As it happens I can offer some details, as I am a distinguished military graduate (really!) of US Army Officer Candidate School. It takes about three months, and if you are walking in off the street you have to do basic training first, which is a bit less than 3 months. Plus there is branch training afterwards. The way it works out if you come in off the street it will be on average 10 months to a year before you actually get assigned to a unit.

The OCS school itself is pretty much basic training on speed. The TAC officers harass you more, the standards are higher, the PT is tougher, and you get less sleep in OCS, and yelled at more than in basic, at least for the first month or so. Provided you are reasonably fit almost any one under 30 I think can do the physical stuff, you get your pushups and situps and pullups, you have to do monkey bars to go to the chow hall, for a while you have to run every time you're outside, sometimes on your supposed day off the TAC officer will take you for wind sprints or a run. My TAC officer had been a quarterback at West Point, so he was into PT. I am no physical phenomenon, but OCS training plus I think a bit more than average motivation on my part allowed me to max every PT test they gave me. I didn't so anything special, just went through Basic training, then did the exercises and tried hard to do them right. To this day I can't tell you how much of my trying to do the exercises "right" was because I was brought up not to goof off on stuff like that, and part because I was way more afraid of the TAC officers than I should have been.

You will probably be the same age as your TAC officer, and you might just be a shade older. Not that age is a big deal, one of the real backbones of our platoon was a Special Forces medic who had decided he wanted to be an officer, he was in his early 30s and he would laugh at the TACs behind their back. Helped us other less-experienced candidates alot, he did.

On the mental side you are expected to have a longer attention span than the average recruit and so you get lots of classes. There is sort of an aping of West Point and there is a system of demerits and the honor system where you're supposed to rat out your fellow candidates if they break a rule somewhere. But that's not hard and fast, the TAC officers themselves will hint at a certain point in the training cycle they'll look the other way if your platoon figures out a way to order illegal pizza into the barracks. If you have a master's degree you will be incredibly overeducated compared to your fellow candidates, some of whom will be prior enlisted going through the school, and most of whom will be people off the street with bachelor's degrees. And the schools they graduate from are from what I could tell not the best, lots of people from community colleges and state schools, and a fair chunk of them it seemed like had majored at partying. I went into OCS with a degree from a pretty good East coast university under my belt, and the school part of OCS for me was a breeze. I could chill in class, take a few notes, and still max the tests.

(There was of course the time the colonel of the whole damn OCS was talking to us about the honor of the Army or something, and he asked us if any of us thought the US lost in Vietnam, and me being not smart enough at the time to keep my mouth shut stood up and say "I think so", and when Colonel Circone asked why I said and I quote "Sir, the United States entered Vietnam to prevent it from becoming Communist, and now all of Vietnam under Communist control" - at which point he actually was pretty cool, told me to sit down, and rolled out the old "We never lost a battle" arguement. The point is, I never got punished or hassled for that kind of classroom backtalk, although maybe later on the TACs paid a bit more attention to my crappy marching. But since I was a pretty squared away candidate otherwise they really didn't hassle me. So the moral is, find out what the TACS consider "squared away", do it, and just hang in there, OCS doesn't last that long.)

The tricky bit is that the Army will promise you a spot in OCS, but they don't promise you a butterbar, and so if you screw up or fail too many physical/school tests - which is difficult but not impossible - then the Army still owns you and you have to work for them for the rest of your enlistment, as an enlisted, and no you don't get to pick your military speciality. So the real fear in OCS is failing and then spending the next 2 - 3 years of your life in some awful military job. The TACs know this, but the thing to keep in mind is that their ratings depend on numbers of successful candidates, so unless you are a real loser they'll figure out a way to get most people through the school.

The other tricky bit about OCS and an Army career is that, the only real control over your fate is limited to becoming or not becoming a lieutenant. That is, you can flunk OCS or pass, and you have a whole lot of influence over that. But what branch they put you in - Army decision; what officer specialty you get trained in - up to the Army, what other military schools you get before you go into the real army (like Ranger or Airborne) - TRADOC decides, what theater you get assigned to - Army decides; what unit/organization you get assigned to - theater command call; and so on down the line. So, except for becoming a lieutenant, a huge amount of your future is at least theoretically out of your hands. You can ask for assignments and schools, but the Army decides based on "need".

Now, I am told that if you go in and say "I wanna be an infantry lieutenant", it's pretty easy to get into that track as it's a big army and lieutenants turn into captains pretty fast, and also lots of lieutenants quit to go to school or to avoid getting sent to a war or whatever. There are two wars on, so as I understand it if you want to try for infantry lieutenant Airborne/Ranger qualified, that's a fair shot. The Army tries very hard to put every infantry lieutentant through Airborne and Ranger shool, and OCS grads have the same shot as West Point or ROTC grads.

What will happen is the Army will look at your request, compare you with all the other guys looking for say the infantry branch and if you did pretty well in OCS I would think with your education you would be a shoo-in. But there is always risk, there was a guy in my OCS platoon, he was third-generation military and had attended Texas A&M, which is in some ways harder core than West Point, and he was the toughest, loudest, hardest candidate in our entire platoon. The Army decided to branch this guy, an natural infantry leader if I ever saw one, into Air Defence. He was one sad dude. Of course after your first tour any one can always try and change branches, but it really sucks to be all set to go to war and lead men in combat, and here the Army takes you and sticks you in ordnance or chemical weapons or something. Maybe when the army was looking at our graduating class, the ADA branch somehow managed to get tabs on several high-quality OCS graduates. But you never really know why the decisions go the way they do, and the Army has tons of lieutenants on their first tour planning to bail out on their branch, and do what they really want on their next tour. And of course, three years and change is a long time to wait to do something you want to do.

Me, I wanted military intelligence and I got it right off. I assume it was because I did pretty well in OCS, I had a degree from a school substantially higher-profile than pretty much any one going through OCS, and I spoke German and Russian fairly well. So it was pretty obvious I was the kind of LT you might want to have in military intelligence, and the rumor was that military intelligence got to pick from the top of the OCS class and then it was the combat arms, and I made MI my first choice. So, for whatever the real reasons were, the Army seemed to come to the same conclusion I did, that I should be in MI.

Now, as I understand it there are some officer specialities that the army WILL guarantee you, for instance you can become an army lawyer (JAG) or an army doctor (Medical Corps), and they'll put your ass through school and train you and once you get in you're getting outstanding real life experience that will earn you big money once you get out. The down side, of course, is you will owe the army a serious chunk of your life before you can get out, I have no idea of the numbers but 5 - 8 years if you were to try and become an army doctor. Of course, once you're out you don't owe any one for Med School, so you're pretty much set for life. I know it sounds wierd to join the army to become a doctor, but like I say if you've completed grad school to the Army you're going to look like one of these officer recruits that could do anything, you've go so high up the civilian educational ladder there is nothing brain-wise they can't train you. If those routes are interesting then talk to the recruiter, I am not sure what the exact deal is these days.

I'll end this with one suggestion and one warning. The suggestion is, and this is me sort of thinking how I'd do it if I had to do it all over again, is go to the recruiter and talk to him about aviation, i.e. driving a helicopter. Helicopters are cool, army helicopters are cool, and pilots are cool. Unlike in the air force or the navy, there is no real separation between cool aircraft and uncool aircraft - Blackhawks, Apaches, and Loaches are all top-of-the-line helicopters and to get any of those airframes to work, you have to be a studly pilot, and the pilots know it. There isn't this fighters vs. bombers vs. transport pecking order like you have in the air force or the navy. (True, you could get assigned to Chinooks, but the solution there is don't wind up in the bottom 10 - 20 per cent of flight school.) Anyway, if the goal is to go to war, there are lots worse ways than flying in a machine the military doesn't dare think is expendable; that's very good for your life expectancy. No IEDs, hot chow, and you get access to the entire sunglasses/flight suit/leather jacket schtick for the rest of your life. And all fixed-wing pilots, everywhere, know helicopters are harder to fly than fixed wing. The grunts won't look down on you (as they definately do on the supply and rear echelon guys) because they know pilots risk their lives, it's just that pilots are smart enough to stay confortable when they go to war. So if I were 27 again and I set myself the goal of fighting for my country, I would think very seriously about becoming a rotor head.

I know the Army will guarantee you a shot at helicopter school if you want to be a warrant officer, which is kind of a specialist caste, but if you want to be an actual officer then same deal as before: you can ask, and then the Army decides your military specialty depending on its view of your qualifications. So you have to hope the Army agrees with your first choice that you want to be a rotor-head lieutenant.

But like I said, in the eyes of the Armya guy out of graduate school is qualified to do just about anything, and I would think the Aviation branch would love to get a business school grad, that means there's nothing technical they can't teach you, and business school grads are assumed to be good "managers" which is pretty important when you as an officer are responsible for 120 milllion dollars of helicopter platoon, a bunch of smart-ass maintenance techs, and 8 or so Army warrant officers who have seen it all and until you can prove you're a decent pilot, they could care less about your rank. It's not like the infantry, where physical endurance and will and personal example are really important to making your people do their job. The helicopter world is ruled by the experienced pilots, and if you are a lieutenant you have to be a smart guy to make your helicopter platoon function, and standing around and issuing orders isn't going to cut it. So anyway, I don't regret I went MI, but if I had a second life I would think very seriously about aviation, pilots are cool people and their job is one of the world's best: it's just you and the aircraft, and you can't really BS on whether the thing is flown well or poorly.

The warning I'll give you is, if you are thinking about becoming a combat officer, there are some career risks there and I don't mean the life-threatening kind. The really cool infantry units, the airborne and the Rangers and as I understand it the Stryker infantry, don't take lieutenants right out of school, you have to serve a tour. You will be a lieutenant right out of school, and if you want to go somewhere and command in combat, the Army could very easily decide you would be better use to the service in military police handling detainees, or engineers dealing with roadside bombs, or finance officer on some base that gets mortarted alot as you have a business degree, or Bradley or M1A1 platoon leader as that's complicated equipment, or maybe artillery as you have to know math, or so on. You could enlist to fight for your country in the Middle East, and wind up freezing your ass off in Korea on the DMZ instead. It's a crap shoot, you have your education going for you and if you do well in OCS tha will help, but at the end of the day you have to hope what you want resembles what the Army happens to need.

It is worth bearing in mind that the Army is about 20 per cent combat jobs, and 80 per cent other stuff, and a substantial percentage of the combat jobs for officers don't go to the new guys. So I would say if your motivation is to get in there and say join the airborne so you can command a platoon of troopers humping it around the Pakistan border and taking it to the Taliban, then I would say pretty much forget. Maybe if you came out top of your OCS class, and were some kind of honor grad of Ranger school, you might get put into the Airborne as a green LT, and after a while maybe they would give you a platoon. But what you are to the army more than anything else is a potential officer a hell of alot more educated, and therefore trainable, than almost any one else they have to stick into the system. And getting pigeon-holed as a book smart officer is not always the most fun, as the hard core jobs don't usually go to officers like that, at least until they get some time in.

On my reread I'll add this note: If you are serious about this definately do the study guides. The level of study skill in the military is pretty poor, it is after all not an academic organization. Therefore, any one with even basic academic skills has a huge advantage if you get to study for a school-type test beforehand. Education gives advantages in life, this is one of them.

[Mord]

Just wanna thank everybody who posted for all the positive remarks and for all the info from BigDuke, Purpleheart, and M1A1...don't have time to break them all down this time. But they are appreciated.

I just got back from MEPS. I took the ASVAB yesterday and the AIMS today (physical got pushed to Monday). Don't know if I passed the psychological exam or not LOL...but I did ok on the ASVAB, right around Purpleheart's prediction (and I must say a lot of hair pulling and worrying before hand). I got a 66, and a CO line score of 109 which I was happy with...It amazed me because so many of the young guys and girls were scoring in the 50's and they are all just out of school. One chick scored an 11! So anyway thus far I am on track.

Still won't know until I do the Physical...after that I just have to concentrate on getting in shape...then BCT. It helped being around a bunch of like minded people the last two days. I've been basically going through this alone for almost a month, meeting those people helped ease my nerves.

Oh, and Huntarr will be happy to know that Maryland is gearing up to ship out a fresh batch of Marine Recruits as I write...god help them LOL.


Mord.

[Chelco]

Mord,
I am proud of you. Stay safe. Good luck!

[abdecken5]

Mord,

I just wanted to say you seem like a very intelligent guy and I am sure you will be a credit to your military profession and I wish you all the best for the future buddy!

[Alan8325]

Bigduke6,

Thanks for all that info! I definitely saw some things that I found interesting, particularly the JAG and medical training and your personal OCS experience. Do you happen to know if it would be possible while enlisting to get an agreement in writing that says my enlistment is terminated if I don't pass OCS? I'm confident that I can pass as I'm also a pretty physical guy, but it would be nice to take some kind of control like that while enlisting.

Regarding aviation, it is definitely something that I've always been interested in and still consider. Even if I never join the service I still plan on taking flying lessons and eventually getting a pilot's license. One catch there however, is that I'm 6'10". :D That means no fighter flying for me, as the primary concern is the ejection process taking off my kneecaps! As for other types of aircraft, I haven't tried sitting in many, but I actually have sat (and fit!) in the cockpit of a V-22 Osprey. The pilot told me, too, that his CO is 6'6" and flies it just fine. This is a Marine aircraft, but I would imagine the cockpit layout is similar for Army large fixed and rotary-wing aircraft. Aviation might actually be a better fit for a guy my size than Rangers or Airborne. I don't want to imagine who an enemy sniper, looking at a platoon with me in it, would aim for. :D

[Clavicula_Nox]

The warning I'll give you is, if you are thinking about becoming a combat officer, there are some career risks there and I don't mean the life-threatening kind. The really cool infantry units, the airborne and the Rangers and as I understand it the Stryker infantry, don't take lieutenants right out of school, you have to serve a tour. You will be a lieutenant right out of school, and if you want to go somewhere and command in combat, the Army could very easily decide you would be better use to the service in military police handling detainees, or engineers dealing with roadside bombs, or finance officer on some base that gets mortarted alot as you have a business degree, or Bradley or M1A1 platoon leader as that's complicated equipment, or maybe artillery as you have to know math, or so on. You could enlist to fight for your country in the Middle East, and wind up freezing your ass off in Korea on the DMZ instead. It's a crap shoot, you have your education going for you and if you do well in OCS tha will help, but at the end of the day you have to hope what you want resembles what the Army happens to need.

In the infantry, at least the light infantry, if you are an infantry branch Lieutenant, and you report to your battalion commander, you will *not* command an infantry platoon without your Ranger tab. It just will not happen, you will be sent to S-1 or S-4 or something until you tab out. It's not fair, and it pigeon-holes a lot of smart officers, but there it is....

[purpheart23]

In the infantry, at least the light infantry, if you are an infantry branch Lieutenant, and you report to your battalion commander, you will *not* command an infantry platoon without your Ranger tab. It just will not happen, you will be sent to S-1 or S-4 or something until you tab out. It's not fair, and it pigeon-holes a lot of smart officers, but there it is....

This is absolutely correct. On top of that it is almost impossible to make First Sergeant without said tab.

[Clavicula_Nox]

This is absolutely correct. On top of that it is almost impossible to make First Sergeant without said tab.

Yeah, When General McNeil was Colonel McNeil, he established the precedence in his battalion that "all NCOs will attend Ranger school" after that, there was just too much stigma in not having it. Some outstanding NCOs get away without it, but I have never seen a commanding infantry officer in the 82nd without one, and when I was in USASOC, every officer and SNCO in my detachment was either Ranger or Special Forces qualified, and several junior NCOs were Ranger qualified. Our highest personnel turn-over rate was from sending soldiers for either Ranger or the SF pipeline. As it was explained to me by an Alpha in my class when I was in the process of tabbing out in 04': "There are only two kinds of officers in the combat arms; those who are Ranger qualified and those who aren't."

[Splinty]

Mord. I don't want to rain on your parade, but I think you're too old to go for officer candidate school. If I remember right the maximum age is 34. Warrant officer is another story but if you wear glasses now you won't be able to go for flight school.

[Alan8325]

Mord. I don't want to rain on your parade, but I think you're too old to go for officer candidate school. If I remember right the maximum age is 34. Warrant officer is another story but if you wear glasses now you won't be able to go for flight school.

Actually it was me who brought that up. :) I'm 27, and turn 28 in May. IIRC the maximum age for special forces, though, is 28 which would make me borderline if I decide to do that.

[Mord]

Splinty, that wasn't me it was Alan. I am hopefully gonna get Army Infantry.


Mord.

[ThePhantom]

Mord, are you serious? I'm almost forty - and there's no way I'd go back in that hell. Advice I can give you....... Run, drink, shoot, drink and if you can get away, find a girl for the night - Then start the process over again the next day (Sorry, that was the me reminiscing my glory days stationed in Subic Bay, Marine Barracks Alpha Company, Philippines, 1990). Everything else was a flipping nightmare. Good luck, four years will fly by.........

[Bigduke6]

Alan,

No, the Army won't cut you that kind of deal. If you flunk out of OCS then you are a private for the rest of your enlistment and your job is what the Army says it wants, you only get to state your wishes.

Like a said, this is the main pressure point used by the TAC officers in OCS, no one wants to spend the next three years of his life in an crappy E-3 job.

The thing on going infantry is that if the Army makes you an infantry officer, they will try very hard to put you through Ranger school as well. This policy in fact keeps new officers arguably of higher quality and motivation in other branches from going into Ranger school, as there are limited slots. But I have to say it makes sense, if there's any officer that needs Ranger training - which pretty much is a small unit leadership and patrolling course with some stress thrown in - it's the infantry officers that need it, and the infantry platoon leaders most of all.

It's a pretty good system but not perfect, in the mech infantry battalion I was in one of our best lieutenants was an infantry lieutenant who had refused Ranger school because he just wanted to do his time and the get out and go to grad school. He really had the Ranger Old Boys' club against him, but he was really like near genius smart, great at getting along with his people, and terrific at solving problems. One time his platoon did the best night firing scores in the entire brigade because it was really foggy and you couldn't see the targets or your rifle sights in the muck. The range officers tried to help by putting chem lights on the pop-up targets so the troops could see them, but that was no good because it was almost impossible to see your rights. So this non-Ranger guy on the range thought about it, and busted open a couple of chem lights and smeared the chem goo on his platoon's sights. So his guys could see where they were shooting, no one else could, and after that the old chem-light-on-rifle-sights trick became brigade SOP. Classic case of any one could of thought of it, but it took a smart guy to do it. His soldiers thought the world of him and they had more fun in the Army than any other platoon in the battalion, I think because their lieutenant was the only one not interested in doing things the Ranger Way. But I digress.

So anyway, if you got branched infantry I think your chances would be extremely high to get a shot at Ranger school. Your height would give you a mild advantage on some of the obstacle stuff and maybe on the marching with a pack stuff, but you would be at a slight disadvantage because the limited food they give you wouldn't go as far for a big guy like you. It's not pure physical strength you need in Ranger school so much as endurance and will.

Or, you could forget the infantry, go Aviation, and drive a helicopter. True, if you met a Ranger he would officially be tougher than you. But he wouldn't be a pilot, nor would he ever be one, and for all his talk about the glory of commanding troops in battle, his war job has mud and dirt in it, and yours has high-tech and air conditioning. Another thing to remember is that caste and pecking order is incredibly important in the army, and it can suck if you happen to get stuck into the lower end (ordnance, finance, these days maybe even artillery or armor) it isn't fun, you spend your career pissed you aren't high speed like the combat arms guys. And if you are a pilot, you are outside the food chain. Every one else stays on earth. You are the only one who owns the sky.

That said, 6'10" has to be very close to the max cut off for some army helicopters. I'm sure you could fit into a Blackhawk but I am not positive aboat a OH-58, they're more cramped. No idea on an Apache as I've never been inside one of those.

On the medical or the JAG, I would only recommend it if you really want to spend your life being a doctor or a lawyer. The Army would give you terrific experience in either field, but if you would rather be doing something else they'll still own you for somewhere between 5 - 10 years probably. That's a long time to hate your job.

Bigduke6,

Thanks for all that info! I definitely saw some things that I found interesting, particularly the JAG and medical training and your personal OCS experience. Do you happen to know if it would be possible while enlisting to get an agreement in writing that says my enlistment is terminated if I don't pass OCS? I'm confident that I can pass as I'm also a pretty physical guy, but it would be nice to take some kind of control like that while enlisting.

Regarding aviation, it is definitely something that I've always been interested in and still consider. Even if I never join the service I still plan on taking flying lessons and eventually getting a pilot's license. One catch there however, is that I'm 6'10". :D That means no fighter flying for me, as the primary concern is the ejection process taking off my kneecaps! As for other types of aircraft, I haven't tried sitting in many, but I actually have sat (and fit!) in the cockpit of a V-22 Osprey. The pilot told me, too, that his CO is 6'6" and flies it just fine. This is a Marine aircraft, but I would imagine the cockpit layout is similar for Army large fixed and rotary-wing aircraft. Aviation might actually be a better fit for a guy my size than Rangers or Airborne. I don't want to imagine who an enemy sniper, looking at a platoon with me in it, would aim for. :D

[orwell]

Just wanted to echo Mark's comments, as a fellow countryman I'm proud and grateful for your service to the country, and sincerely hope everything works out for you.

Also wanted to say thanks to the people who posted info on the actual conditions of deployment, I love to read actual accounts of military service and just how different it is from the civilian life I know.

[John Kettler]

Mord,

My now happily retired, and unwounded at that, younger brother George joined the Army back when the cutoff was 27. He slipped in at age 26 and a bunch, fed up with running a warehouse and, frankly, "wanting to play with machine guns." He had some college, made rank in record time (Sgt in two years ISTR). He was in Army Scouts, and loved that, save for the scary, nauseating NOE helo roller coasters. He then became a Bradley gunner in the Armored Cav, a Master Gunner, and a Bradley Platoon Sgt., all these in the 2/11 ACR along the IGB with East Germans watching back. His was one of the units detailed to fight the covering force battle if the balloon went up, units the studies I had in my safe back then said were expected to take 50% casualties. From there, he went to Scouts in Hummvees, and was in Bahrain when GW I ended. Did a year in Korea, too. GW II saw him deploy with the first SBCT (from Fort Lewis) to see combat. By then, he was SFC, running the TOC radios and had extensive time under fire in northern Iraq, both in camp and on road patrols. Rockets, mortars, IEDS, VBIEDs (nearly blown sky high; missed by mere seconds)--he saw the elephant. He had so many friends killed and wounded (heard about only a few) that he freaked when I sent him Mom's military funeral flag, thinking he'd particularly appreciate it as a remembrance of her. She was a Marine SSgt.

Joining the Army was his decision, and he survived to retire, barely escaped being stop lossed, more or less intact (80% disability from an agglomeration of back, knee, respiratory and other service related stuff) and lived his dream. If this is your dream, then go for it, and be well in the doing!

I have no military experience to offer you of my own, but I'll share something I got from
a National Guard soldier I used to do security work with and who is now a cop. Rings and fast roping don't mix! A guy in his unit went whipping out the helicopter door, only to be brought short by his wedding band's snagging the doorsill. Cost him a finger!

I do have an equipment suggestion to offer, too, should you be going someplace hot. Get yourself a Misty Mate Personal Cooling System. I got one for brother George so he wouldn't keel over from heat prostration in the steam bath that was Iraq while patrolling in armored Hummvees with interior temps as high as 160. Helped!

Stay sharp,be safe and good luck!

Regards,

John Kettler

[Omenowl]

I believe they changed the age for OCS to 39. That is what I was told when I looked into the national guard in 2005.

[SgtMuhammed]

You also have to have at least 60 hours of college. At least you did in 2000.

[Mord]

Hey fellas.

I had some bad RAM and my comp crashed so thanks for all the supportive comments and info while I was away.

So to catch you up, MEPS sent me through a bunch of hoops and I spent three LONG days in there last week, and on one of them my projection was canceled so I couldn't even do anything. BUT I did get three free hotel stays with dinner and breakfast, so it wasn't that bad. LOL...they are to the point where they can place my face with a name when I walk in.

The punk ass doctors (the civilian ones) were a group of pissy, little Nazi pukes to say the least. LOL they had every recruit in the places POed. I decided that the medical aspects of MEPS is to start the bonding process...we all got a kick out of bitching about how rude and pushy they were. All the uniformed Doctors were great but the civy docs...well it was kinda like a bunch of, ugly, hairy backed slobs ridiculing a model for having a pimple. LOL half of them probably couldn't pick their pants up off the floor without chucking three vertebra off their spines...but boy could they judge the way you rotated your left foot...very loudly I might add. The highlight of that day was a guy telling a story about another dude that was thrown out of the "turn your head and cough" room for having a cluster that smelled like a garbage can...after the groans of disgust came the Glade plug-in jokes, along with hanging one of those pine tree air fresheners from the offending appendage.


Seeing that my age was of an advanced state I was unlucky (or lucky depending on your value system) enough to be greased up and probed like Ned Beaty on a canoeing expedition...The other guys, including my recruiter's station commander had a good laugh over the violation of my gerbil chute...thank god she'd stopped at the elbow...I could taste her finger nail polish.

To make a long story short, after the regular MEPS riga-ma-roll, the prostate polka, a trip to Walter Reed, and waiting on a waiver for having a good cholesterol count 5 points too low, Thursday should seal the deal. My recruiter has promised me a beer and dinner when it's all over. SO, all that should be left is to sit down with the Liaison Officer to hammer out my contract and then raise my hand and swear in...I hope.


Mord.

[John Kettler]

Mord,

Appreciate the update! Have also had the peculiar "delights" of an unexpected first time ever encounter with a female doctor, especially the prostate exam. She was thoroughly professional to be sure, but I found it unnerving.

Good luck!

Regards,

John Kettler