Xm8

[mike_the_wino]

Looks like Heckler-Koch USA (http://world.guns.ru/assault/as61-e.htm) is working on a design to replace the ole M-16. Interesting concept.

How do I get to be a beta tested for this thing?

[Elmar Bijlsma]

Eh? I thought this puppy was dead in the water?
The US is wedded to the M16/M4 family. Anything that doesn't build on their huge stock of parts just isn't going to make it for the foreseeable future.

What was the XM8s advantages? Personally, I would've thought the way forward is bullpups.

[YankeeDog]

XM8 project is old news. And yes, last I heard it was on hold.

[Field Marshal Blücher]

XM8 has been around for years, but the US military AFAIK cancelled the program a while ago.

[CPT Mike]

I'd rather get the HK416, especially since the design is the same as the M4 and can support attachments with its piccatinny rail system.

http://blog.norway.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/hk-416.jpg

To be honest, I'd rather get the M468 or something of a 6.5 or 6.8 caliber.

https://policeguns.com/catalog/images/468.gif

[mike_the_wino]

Hrrrrummpppffff. Neat concept in the XM8 but if the M16/M4 is still chugging along why develop something new?

LT Mike, is 6.5 or 6.8 a cartridge that is in use or would it have to be developed? Is .223 too small? How much weight would that add with an average ammo load?

[Sgt Joch]

6.8 already exists:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6.8_mm_Remington_SPC

it packs more punch than 5.56mm and less recoil the 7.62mm and is already available in the civilian market such as in the Ruger mini 6.8:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/18/Mini14GB.jpg/800px-Mini14GB.jpg


which is legal in canada with a 5 round magazine. :)

[Stalin's Organist]

From wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XM8):

"the project was put on hold in April 2005, and was formally cancelled on October 31, 2005."

cancelled 4 years ago & just making it here?

Oh how low have we sunk?!

[Elmar Bijlsma]

Oh how low have we sunk?!
Oh, I think we did well in not pointing out how incredibly behind the times our pet wino was. Except for you.

[Stalin's Organist]

and apart from you in the 2nd, YD in the 3rd and Blucher in the 4th psts.

But yeah...apart from those I'm pretty mean.

[Kanonier Reichmann]

Having little to no knowledge on the subject of the pro's & con's of fully automatic weapons, what are the alleged advantages of a bullpup style design compared with a more 'traditional' type design of a fully automatic weapon?

One thing I noticed on that link to the Russian site was how advanced (for its day) the British EM-2 assault rifle was and clearly how much it influenced the Steyr design. Seemed like a great opportunity lost by the British army when they decided not to proceed with its acceptance as the standard weapon to arm their forces considering they ended up with the often derided SA80 design with all the problems associated with that weapon.

Regards

KR

[Affentitten]

Generally bullpup means same or longer barrel length (hence accuracy) but less overall weapon length and weight.

[gunnergoz]

Also means a center of gravity closer to the shooter, which may assist in keeping the piece under control during auto fire. Might assist accuracy during intuitive pointing - just a guess. Compact design should help in tight quarters battle, such as fighting from vehicles, in dense brush and in building clearing. But most of bullpup designs seem fairly bulky to me, just looking at them. Mind you, I've never fired one, so I'm just guessing about these qualities - but I'd like to try one out some day.

[mike_the_wino]

Oh, I think we did well in not pointing out how incredibly behind the times our pet wino was. Except for you.
I am actually disappointed I didn't know that there was a 6.8 round. Guess I haven't been gun shopping enough lately.

[luderbamsen]

Having little to no knowledge on the subject of the pro's & con's of fully automatic weapons, what are the alleged advantages of a bullpup style design compared with a more 'traditional' type design of a fully automatic weapon?

One thing I noticed on that link to the Russian site was how advanced (for its day) the British EM-2 assault rifle was and clearly how much it influenced the Steyr design. Seemed like a great opportunity lost by the British army when they decided not to proceed with its acceptance as the standard weapon to arm their forces considering they ended up with the often derided SA80 design with all the problems associated with that weapon.

Regards

KR

In addition to what the others mentioned, barrel length is important when using the 5.56mm round, because muzzle velocity (which relates directly to lethality) depends heavily on barrel length. Much of the criticism of 5.56mm lethality comes from the prolific use of shorter barreled M4 carbines over the full length M16.

A common shortcoming of the bullpup design is that it is right hand only: If you fire something like the Steyr or SA80 from the left shoulder, the brass will eject straight into your face. The Steyr can be made left handed by changing a few parts, while the French FA MAS can do so by simply rotating the bolt and switching the cheek pad to the other side (covering the ejection port on one side and exposing it on the other) or so I've heard.

While certainly not perfect, the current version of the SA80, the L85A2, is a vastly improved weapon, and generally troops are pleased with it. Some of the problems were due to the design and the bullpup configuration, others were down to horrible management of the whole programme.

I am actually disappointed I didn't know that there was a 6.8 round. Guess I haven't been gun shopping enough lately.

There's also a round called the 6.5mm Grendel with superior long-range performance. And work is still being done on advanced munitions types: Caseless and case telescoped rounds.

To be honest, I'd rather get the M468 or something of a 6.5 or 6.8 caliber.

https://policeguns.com/catalog/images/468.gif

Barrett has now moved on to the REC-7: Basically the same weapon, but now with a gas piston system and some minor changes.

[costard]

...And work is still being done on advanced munitions types: Caseless and case telescoped rounds.


I thought the caseless round had been dropped - the brass case from a standard round takes a goodly amount of heat with it when ejected; without this, the weapon heats up too quickly.

[luderbamsen]

I thought the caseless round had been dropped - the brass case from a standard round takes a goodly amount of heat with it when ejected; without this, the weapon heats up too quickly.

Well, the old G11 was dropped ages ago, but low intensity work on caseless munitions continue. There are just too many interesting opportunities in caseless and case telescoped ammo for the boffins to give up on the idea. And historically, major small arms advances have started with the ammunition, from the Mini Ball of the American Civil War to the 7.92mm Kurtz round of the Sturmgewehr 44